DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '10 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on March 08, 2010, 10:24:13 PM

Title: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Watching Project on March 08, 2010, 10:24:13 PM
Robservations #951
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 09, 2010, 12:57:55 AM
Barnabas is a vampire again.

Apparently Oberon and Haza are Jeb's parents...  When did Barnabas become so attached to Maggie as Maggie, rather than as a Josette surrogate?    I find I'm eyeing potential blood sources for Barnabas, as he must be doing.   Bob the Bartender?   His blood's probably full of cigar smoke... 

I like the Virginia woman's story, what little we get.   Was she never brought in by a Box, but won over freely?   The Leviathans are "liberating" to her.   She must be one of those people looking for a cult to join.   Barnabas feels her out, searching for some awful trait that will justify his feeding on her...

Grayson Hall was good, in her reaction to what's happened to Barnabas.   Quentin: "How do we fight them, now that Barnabas is no longer able to function during the day?"   Well, on the bright side, he functions really well at night!   This is the worst mistake Jeb could have made.   He gave his biggest enemy superpowers...

Barnabas didn't care whether Megan was upstairs sleeping when he torched the place...   And so begins the disastrous Collinsport Fire of 1970, or it easily could have been!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Lydia on March 09, 2010, 06:58:24 AM
I like the Virginia woman's story, what little we get.   Was she never brought in by a Box, but won over freely?
Apparently, but I'm finding it hard to imagine how Bruno persuaded her that the Leviathans were the cat's pajamas.

I was surprised to see Bob O'Connell getting a credit at the end for playing the bartender, but the Blue Whale bartender did seem very much a part of the action today, even though he didn't say a word.  He probably knows more than he cares to tell about the Leviathan business, and about everything else that goes on Collinsport.  Is this the last time we see the Blue Whale?

I'm sorry for Barnabas, living out his worst nightmare by being turned into a vampire again, but I'm afraid I just can't get terribly interested in it at this point.  No doubt the die-hard fans who stuck by Dark Shadows even though they hated the Leviathan storyline were cheering - but it all seems sort of old hat to me.  Maybe that scream from Barnabas was heartfelt on Jonathan Frid's part: going back into a role that he thought he had shed.  If Dark Shadows hadn't been canceled, and the "No more vampire" clause in Frid's contract (or whatever it was) remained in force, would the fact that the Barnabas Collins character had once been a vampire be an arcane bit of Dark Shadows lore rather than the part of Dark Shadows most likely to be remembered by non-fans?
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Taeylor Collins on March 09, 2010, 07:35:04 AM
7/16/70
OH no…Barney is doomed again.   So how many times has he been turned into a vampire again?? 
Regardless JF always conveys pain well when he is bitten!   

“What have you done with ‘em!’  Quentin says with David’s southern sound shining through.
Grayson plays her emotions well.  I don't get why B is so gray headed?   He sure is painted to high heaven.  Contoured and highlighted and bronzed!   Oh hello nice to see ya Bob the Bartender!  Oh YAY…the Jukebox seems to be out tonight and we won't hear the same three songs.

A new Leviathan in town??  Did the group get together and have Naga rings and necklaces made to go around?? 
Again this is another episode that is very unfamiliar to me! 

I really love to see Julia and Quentin working together as well as Grayson and David.  Okay now I remember this episode because the line that Grayson delivers is very memorable!  “But I think that soon Jeb Hawkes is going to learn that he has made the biggest mistake of his life this night! Julia

Whoever is breathing has a slight wheeze in their voice.  Bunch of smokers!  LOL  Hey it was the 60’s!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 09, 2010, 11:28:45 PM
When did Barnabas become so attached to Maggie as Maggie

That's an excellent question - especially considering that Barnabas was totally willing[spoiler]to let Maggie die when he decided she had to be used as the lifeforce for Eve.  [snow_undecided][/spoiler]But then, Leviathans isn't exactly a storyline that's concerned with little things like storyline continuity, logic or fact. And sadly with respect to that last one, the next ep features one of if not the most ridiculous plot point ever within what has to be one of the most if not the most ridiculous plot turn ever.  [snow_rolleyes]  But more on that in the discussion for Ep #952...

If Dark Shadows hadn't been canceled, and the "No more vampire" clause in Frid's contract (or whatever it was) remained in force, would the fact that the Barnabas Collins character had once been a vampire be an arcane bit of Dark Shadows lore rather than the part of Dark Shadows most likely to be remembered by non-fans?

There wasn't actually a clause in Frid's contract that he wouldn't play Barnabas as a vampire - he simply said that he didn't want to play Barnabas as a vampire anymore. What was in his contract, though, was that Frid had to be given a character other than Barnabas to play. And frankly that was only fair because every other major actor on the show had already played multiple characters by the time he'd insisted on that.

However, you bring up a very interesting question - and I'll take it even one step further: if DS hadn't been canceled and was still on the air today, would Barnabas even be the character that's most associated with the show? Every long running soap has had characters who at the time they were on the show seemed so identified with the show that it would be impossible to ever think of the show without thinking of them. But funny thing, when they left those shows, yes, there may have been gaps in fans' hearts, but the shows soon introduced other characters who eventually filled those gaps. And while the departed characters have most probably remained in longtime fans' hearts, they're no longer seen as irreplaceable or as the character most identified with the shows. And when it comes to newer fans, many if not most don't even know who some of the classic characters on their favorite soaps were or even care about them because they're so far removed from what happens on the soaps nowadays.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Midnite on March 09, 2010, 11:50:47 PM
I just watched a lovely scene between Barnabas and Maggie in #937 in which they discovered their common ground-- a mutual concern for the Collins family, especially Carolyn, and I think it's the answer to your question about when he began to see her as an individual.  While of course Barnabas was in desperate need of allies at the time, it's touching to see him finally treating her as an equal ("We think alike, Maggie. You don't know how gratifying it is to find that out."), and afterward, his thoughts revealed that he struggled with the weight of having involved her in the Leviathan mess.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 10, 2010, 12:06:25 AM
If only his conscience had struggled that much back when he'd insisted on what I mentioned in my spoiler. But then, Barnabas' conscience doesn't exactly operate with anything resembling consistency. In fact, it's often fickle and it rarely ever gets in the way of what Barnabas believes has to be done, no matter who suffers in the process...
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 10, 2010, 01:07:44 AM
Midnite-- Thanks.... The attachment of Barnabas's for Maggie that I wondered about was his overpowering desire for her right after revampirization.   He's obsessed with the fact that he can have her... tonight!   ...As if this had been a dream of his for ages.   Of course she's a friend, but when did he become Vicki II to Barnabas?

MB-- Right now, I think of JF's demand to play another character as totally unreasonable.  Why?  Because Barnabas wasn't a peripheral character.   The lead actor playing the most popular character can't abandon that character and play a different part, and get away with it.   It's something that they got away with all the part-switching on DS, but I think it was because they at least had that one character whom they could depend on to be there, as an anchor.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: IluvBarnabas on March 10, 2010, 01:19:13 AM
Sorry, Magnus but I don't agree that Jonathan was unreasonable to want to play another character. I mean, almost everybody else on the show got to play a different character....do you fault him for wanting the same opportunity? I don't.

Do you think he should have been sacked simply because he asked for the chance to portray a totally different character? I don't think he was trying to 'get away' with anything. He just wanted a chance to do something different.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 10, 2010, 01:23:49 AM
If the audience wanders off because of it, which was predictable, then it was the wrong choice.   As I said, getting rid of the very popular main character was too enormous a risk.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 10, 2010, 01:25:41 AM
Right now, I think of JF's demand to play another character as totally unreasonable.  Why?  Because Barnabas wasn't a peripheral character.   The lead actor playing the most popular character can't abandon that character and play a different part, and get away with it.

Well, see, I've never considered Barnabas the end all and be all of the show - I've always been a fan of the entire package. There was a DS before Barnabas was on and there was still a DS after we'd last seen him - and in both cases the show was still successful (the Laura storyline boosted the ratings significantly and the ratings stayed at those levels through Barnabas' entire introduction and for many months thereafter - and 1841PT was even more successful than than 1967 had been - and NoDS was also quite successful). And I firmly believe that if the show hadn't been canceled, and if Frid had left the show, which he would have invariably done, it could have remained successful without him. But that's not a discussion to get into in this topic. It would be better to discuss it in a topic all its own.  [snow_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: IluvBarnabas on March 10, 2010, 01:27:40 AM
Well, despite my username, I totally agree with every word you say MB. But as you say, this discussion would be better for a separate thread.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 10, 2010, 02:39:48 AM
To get this topic back on track, let's revisit one of my favorite capture/captions from the February 16th installment of the History Slideshow (the one that's atop the Robservations board):

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/0216ds_8.jpg)
1970: Ep #951 - After being attacked by the bat, Barnabas
agonizes that he's become Pepe LePu with that streak in
his hair - oh, no, wait - it's that he is once again vampire.
( But more so that he's a vampire who looks like Pepe
LePu. ;-) )
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Taeylor Collins on March 10, 2010, 05:23:41 AM
Yeah I guess the gray was for effect but I never got it??? [snow_huh]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 10, 2010, 05:53:27 AM
Thanks heavens they dropped it in 1970PT. Maybe it faded away while[spoiler]Barnabas was chained in the coffin.  [snow_wink][/spoiler]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Taeylor Collins on March 10, 2010, 05:54:47 AM
LOL...apparently!  HEY MB why don't you start a thread about the Barney discussion!  I thought about it but I can't think of a good title!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 10, 2010, 06:30:13 AM
I thought the grey was perfect, and essential in showing what a devastating thing had happened to Barnabas, rather than just saying it happened.   It had to be apparent to the viewer, yet not so obvious that the other characters would have to be idiots not to notice it.   They apparently hit upon aging him as a sort of compromise to make him semi-deathlike; well, the more you age the closer to death you are, I guess.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Lydia on March 10, 2010, 10:26:23 AM
The gray doesn't make sense because becoming a vampire is supposed to stop your aging right then and there.  In the story of Josette that Barnabas told Julia not long before Vicky went to 1795, he indicated that he had offered to make Josette a vampire because she didn't like growing older.  But never mind, I was writing in another topic only a few minutes ago that I shouldn't expect Dark Shadows to be consistent.

Right now, I think of JF's demand to play another character as totally unreasonable.  Why?  Because Barnabas wasn't a peripheral character.   The lead actor playing the most popular character can't abandon that character and play a different part, and get away with it.
But that would be Frid's problem only if he were desperate to stay on the show, which I don't think he was.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 10, 2010, 11:39:41 PM
It had to be apparent to the viewer, yet not so obvious that the other characters would have to be idiots not to notice it.

Honestly, I think the other characters had to be idiots if they didn't notice it. I mean, Barnabas hair was black, then suddenly he had gray at his temples along with a Pepe LePu gray streak. How could anyone have missed it?!  [lghy]  But, of course, being that those not in the loop were mostly refined Collins, they never would have mentioned the change - though I certainly suspect that even they would have wondered to themselves how the hell Barnabas' hair changed so radically so quickly.  [wink2]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 11, 2010, 01:54:31 AM
I think they needed to have the change make an emotional impact on the viewer.   Just showing him bitten wasn't enough.   It always had the desired impact on me.   It's a matter of emotional impact far more than logic.   They made Barnabas look considerably paler when he went back to 1897, which was a similar sort of decision.   
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 11, 2010, 02:00:56 AM
He should have looked paler in 1897 than in 1969 because he was a vampire for most of 1897.  :)  But this looks almost as if they were doing a Bride of Frankenstein on him. Thank heavens they didn't pile his hair up quite that high on his head.  [lghy]  I suppose we should be happy they exercised some restraint - not to mention that they eventually came back to their senses...
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 11, 2010, 02:20:05 AM
He should have looked paler in 1897 than in 1969 because he was a vampire for most of 1897.  :)

Of course, and I suppose they could have done the same thing in 1970, and probably should have.   Then again, it might not be best for the same effect to be repeated.   As for its being inappropriate for Barnabas to show aging when revamping, presumably he wasn't going to get any older from that point on.   White hair isn't always a sign of age.  I went grey at 30-35.   It's sometimes a sign of shock, as with Sabrina.   Here, I think it indicated a sapping of life, and an overwhelming transformation.

It's the only thing I like in the story lately, forgive me!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 11, 2010, 02:52:09 AM
Oh, you don't have to apologize for trying to defend something you like. In fact, trying to defend something you like or believe in is a major point of debating the pros and cons of something.  [snow_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Midnite on March 24, 2010, 11:07:56 PM
What an overwrought, knife-laden mess of an episode.  I guess I was supposed to feel for Barnabas when he couldn't bring himself to say the word "vampire," but in truth I just didn't care.

We're told that only the box can create new cult members, but what about the mighty Levia-dream, or the expert salesmanship of humans like Bruno and Strak?

A blooper-- Nelle's bite marks got uncovered too soon, so Julia put the scarf back over them til it was time for their closeup.

Yes, Barnabas, pour the accelerant (that is too a word, Spell Check!) around in a big circle, then stand in the middle of it to drop the match. ::)

Barnabas is a vampire again.
Quentin:  "He looks different, Julia."
Ya think??!!!

Quote
the Virginia woman... She must be one of those people looking for a cult to join.
I bet Strak had no trouble bringing Bruno in by promising him lots of opportunities to torture and murder plus all the women he could convert.

It's interesting that in a parallel word, Nelle has an identical counterpart in Collinsport who [spoiler]works in a bar identical to the one she wandered into.[/spoiler] Or is this one of those resemblances that we're not supposed to notice?

Quote
Barnabas feels her out, searching for some awful trait that will justify his feeding on her...
Nice!  Even though he probably was already thinking about how good her blood will taste, he did seem pleased to learn that she wouldn't mind a little killing or stealing.

Quote
Barnabas didn't care whether Megan was upstairs sleeping when he torched the place...
I didn't think of that.  You're right-- he never checked to see if she was there.  Ouch!!

Since Jeb can turn into "the most dangerous form that ever existed," wouldn't it be better to burn the building down while he's in human form so that he can't get back to the room and transform?  If Jeb were to escape out the window again in creature form and wreak havoc, how would Barnabas or anybody be able to stop him?  What am I missing?

I was surprised to see Bob O'Connell getting a credit at the end for playing the bartender, but the Blue Whale bartender did seem very much a part of the action today, even though he didn't say a word.
That surprised me too.  He didn't so much as grunt.  But it was the last appearance of Bob O'Connell, sniff.

Quote
Is this the last time we see the Blue Whale?
As the Blue Whale, yes.  In a parallel world, it made a different choice-- deciding that eagles are way cooler than whales.

Midnite-- Thanks.... The attachment of Barnabas's for Maggie that I wondered about was his overpowering desire for her right after revampirization.   He's obsessed with the fact that he can have her... tonight!   ...As if this had been a dream of his for ages.   Of course she's a friend, but when did he become Vicki II to Barnabas?
Ah, you meant his reason for wanting to bite her; I thought you were referring to his argument for NOT biting her.  I interpreted it as Barnabas finding he has the same compelling lust that he had when he was released from the coffin in 1967 and satisfied his urges (for a companion to replace Josette as well as for having a personal blood bank) soon after via Maggie.  As for her becoming Vicki II, I think that's something the writers have been pursuing vigorously ever since Maggie became governess #2.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Taeylor Collins on March 25, 2010, 12:23:43 AM
I wasn't aware this was Bob's last apperance or had forgotten one!  [snow_sad]

And LOL about the Whales VS Eagles Midnite! HEE
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 25, 2010, 12:44:11 AM
Barnabas is a vampire again.
Quentin:  "He looks different, Julia."
Ya think??!!!

 [stfl]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 25, 2010, 01:19:56 AM
It's interesting that in a parallel word, Nelle has an identical counterpart in Collinsport who [spoiler]works in a bar identical to the one she wandered into.[/spoiler] Or is this one of those resemblances that we're not supposed to notice?

Really?  I say we can notice it to our hearts' content.  It sounds like one of those rare instances when accidents actually make sense and help the storyline concept... except that she really ought to be in Virginia in PT.

Quote
Since Jeb can turn into "the most dangerous form that ever existed," wouldn't it be better to burn the building down while he's in human form so that he can't get back to the room and transform?  If Jeb were to escape out the window again in creature form and wreak havoc, how would Barnabas or anybody be able to stop him?  What am I missing?

Makes sense.   To me anyway.

Quote
I interpreted it as Barnabas finding he has the same compelling lust that he had when he was released from the coffin in 1967 and satisfied his urges (for a companion to replace Josette as well as for having a personal blood bank) soon after via Maggie.

A passable enough explanation, and a better than passable one if it explains the Vicki fixation too, though Vicki had more of that semi-refined or perhaps just educated air that might make him interested after crapping out on creating Josette Part Deux.  Maggie by this point is just a polyester scream machine.  

Barnabas really does sound as if he's had a thing for Maggie for the longest time, though.  Maybe it's the same old revision of the past, by just declaring the past to have been something else, that they resort to many times.   Willie declaring over and over how good Barnabas was to him in the early days leaps to mind.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Midnite on March 25, 2010, 02:18:10 AM
Barnabas really does sound as if he's had a thing for Maggie for the longest time, though.  Maybe it's the same old revision of the past, by just declaring the past to have been something else, that they resort to many times.   Willie declaring over and over how good Barnabas was to him in the early days leaps to mind.

I can't say that I agree that Barnabas had a thing for Maggie.  He has a history of treating her horribly, but recently began to see her as a close friend, though it never reached the level of his fondness for Vicki, to whom he even proposed marriage.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Gothick on March 25, 2010, 04:15:16 AM
I guess I am the only one here who thinks the grey streaks make Barn suddenly bear an uncanny resemblance to Grandpa Munster.

cheers,

G.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Taeylor Collins on March 25, 2010, 04:24:58 AM
DUH DA DA DUH DA!  Yep never thought of it G! LOL
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on March 25, 2010, 05:23:37 AM
I guess I am the only one here who thinks the grey streaks make Barn suddenly bear an uncanny resemblance to Grandpa Munster.

That's almost as bad as Pepe LePu.  [snow_laugh]  Though Grandpa didn't have the gray streak though the middle of his hair, did he? That's what really says Pepe LePu to me.  [snow_wink]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0951
Post by: loril54 on April 13, 2010, 04:37:16 AM
Good point about Megan, possibly being in the store.

When I saw the new gal that came in the door. I thought about well that provides Barnabas
dinner.   [ghost_rolleyes]