What if there are no more fests . . .

[Nancy]

What if there were no more fests organized by DCP?  I know there are MediaCons and other events that are entirely fan-oriented, fan-organized and they do very well.  Fans of a particular show or genre all meet in different cities each year or several times a year and have their fan gathering at a hotel.  They plan events including artwork displays, fanfic readings and other activities - all fan-driven.  No actor guests at all.  I've been told by those who attend these events that the weekend is relaxing and enjoyable.  Could this be a way to go should there not be anymore fests as we know them for awhile until DS goes back on the air?  What do you think?

Nancy

[adamsgirl]

While that would be better than nothing, Nancy, it wouldn't fit the bill for me. Yes, I enjoy getting together with everyone I've met and been meeting for the fests I've attended. Still, I feel lots of people wouldn't feel it was worth the expense. Too, why it would depend on Dark Shadows returning to the airwaves doesn't make sense to me. I've heard of fan conventions for shows that have been off the air forever. They still go on. That's not a good enough reason, to me, to stop doing festivals. That said, if the powers-that-be don't want to continue it because they don't see it as profitable or are just too burnt out (as I said in another thread), turn it over to other people who would be willing to take it on. It might have to be scaled down in the beginning so those taking over could get their bearings, but I do believe it would take on a life of its own.

[Nancy]

While that would be better than nothing, Nancy, it wouldn't fit the bill for me. Yes, I enjoy getting together with everyone I've met and been meeting for the fests I've attended. Still, I feel lots of people wouldn't feel it was worth the expense.

May I ask why you feel that way?  I thought the point was to get together with other fan/friends at these events.

Too, why it would depend on Dark Shadows returning to the airwaves doesn't make sense to me. I've heard of fan conventions for shows that have been off the air forever. They still go on.

I admit that my opinion is pretty based on what I've been told by fest organizers more so than my own observation.  I don't fly out to California for the fests (at least I haven't yet) so I have never made any personal observation on attendance when the show was on the air compared to when it was not.

That's not a good enough reason, to me, to stop doing festivals. That said, if the powers-that-be don't want to continue it because they don't see it as profitable or are just too burnt out (as I said in another thread), turn it over to other people who would be willing to take it on. It might have to be scaled down in the beginning so those taking over could get their bearings, but I do believe it would take on a life of its own.

There isn't (and never has been) anything to stop anyone from doing this.  For several years there was an annual DS Halloween event organized by fans held on the ground of Lockwood Mansion.  Louisville, KY fans had a weekend event for one or two years, I believe, back in the 1980s and other fans have had smaller events.  The person who does the DS fest as we know it is involved in it as a business venture, a wing of the DCP publicity machine.  If it's not profitable, it's not going to take place since the lack of a profit means having less or no many to fund the next event.  Being "burnt out" doesn't have anything to do with a decision to have the fests, IMO.  They either assist the DS publilcity machine (and make it profitable enough to break even) or they do not.

I go to the fests on the east coast to meet up with people I've gotten to know over the years and I enjoy the event for that purpose.  I've worked with many folks over the years at the fest too. 

Nancy

[ProfStokes]

Are you speaking hypothetically or do you know something we don't...  

The Festival is a convenient location for everyone to meet at an affordable price (relative to other conventions). As adamsgirl said, my concern with the smaller gatherings is that they might not be worth the expense. (Don't smaller gatherings charge more to make up the difference?) If there were multiple DS gatherings around the country at different times of the year, I might not be able to see all of my friends, who hail from different regions.  People attending a gathering in Ohio or Florida probably would not travel to the Los Angeles area a couple of months later, whereas under the current system everybody would go to Brooklyn or Anaheim during the same weekend.  Also, are you talking about lumping DS fan activities into existing general conventions, or having small, purely DS-oriented gatherings?  I'm not a sci-fi fan, nor a fan of shows like Buffy or Angel so a genre convention would not appeal to me.

On the other hand, I do like the idea of a gathering that travels to different cities around the country instead sticking to Los Angeles and New York.  It seems more democratic, and it would give attendees a chance to do more varied sightseeing.  Putting more focus on fans and their contributions is also an appealing idea; the fan videos and skits have always been my favorite part of the Festival.

On the whole, I'd rather have the Festivals continue under new management as adamsgirl suggested, but I'd rather have some kind of DS annual activity than none at all.

ProfStokes

[Nancy]

Are you speaking hypothetically or do you know something we don't... 

No, ProfStokes, I don't know anything you don't on this.

The Festival is a convenient location for everyone to meet at an affordable price (relative to other conventions). As adamsgirl said, my concern with the smaller gatherings is that they might not be worth the expense. (Don't smaller gatherings charge more to make up the difference?)

Yes, but several major expenses would not exist.  There would not be the very costly venture of flying in actors from the opposite cost and paying their expenses.  You would not have to rent as much space.

On the other hand, I do like the idea of a gathering that travels to different cities around the country instead sticking to Los Angeles and New York.  It seems more democratic, and it would give attendees a chance to do more varied sightseeing.  Putting more focus on fans and their contributions is also an appealing idea; the fan videos and skits have always been my favorite part of the Festival.

Yes, I agree with you.  If there is not any concern about having to pay to fly people in from one coast to another as guests, that eliminates the primary concern about being on one coast or the other.

On the whole, I'd rather have the Festivals continue under new management as adamsgirl suggested, but I'd rather have some kind of DS annual activity than none at all.

And there isn't anything to stop someone else from sponsoring a DS event.   Some of the reasons previous attempts have failed are (a) the expense involved was not sufficiently researched/realized and (b) the organizing aspects were not done very well.   When someone takes on such an event, one of the first things he/she will say is "I didn't realize there was so much involved" and you don't until you are in the thick of it.   That said, the first thing any aspiring fest organizer needs to do is get a crew of people they know and can work with who can be counted on to take a job and run with it.

I would attend (and have attended) other DS-oriented fan events.

Nancy

[petofi]

Weren't the early ShadowCons fan-generated and organized events, and wasn't the current Fest guru/DCP rep just one of another group of fans involved with a smaller local fest (I'm thinking of the one that ran out of Dallas for a few years back in the 80s)?  I know that these smaller events also had guests from the original show, though perhaps not on so large a scale.  From what I have heard of these events, they were pretty well attended for what they were, and laid the groundwork for the DS Fests.  It seems to me that, whatever happens to The DS Fest, there have always been fans eager to be involved in getting together for a celebration of their favorite show, sometimes exclusively with fans, sometimes with show personnel.  Who can fill me in on more details?

Petofi

[ProfStokes]

Thank you for the clarifications on the costs, Nancy.

Too, why it would depend on Dark Shadows returning to the airwaves doesn't make sense to me. I've heard of fan conventions for shows that have been off the air forever. They still go on.

I admit that my opinion is pretty based on what I've been told by fest organizers more so than my own observation.  I don't fly out to California for the fests (at least I haven't yet) so I have never made any personal observation on attendance when the show was on the air compared to when it was not.

The show was already off the air by the 2004 Tarrytown Fest; you attended that one.  What did you think of attendance there?

The person who does the DS fest as we know it is involved in it as a business venture, a wing of the DCP publicity machine.  If it's not profitable, it's not going to take place since the lack of a profit means having less or no many to fund the next event.  Being "burnt out" doesn't have anything to do with a decision to have the fests, IMO.  They either assist the DS publilcity machine (and make it profitable enough to break even) or they do not.

But it wasn't always that way, was it?  From what I understand of what longtime fans/Fest attendees have told me, Marcy Robin and Kathy Resch organized the first DS gatherings, the ShadowCons, later called Festivals.  I'm not sure what Jim Pierson's role in the event was at this stage, but later (circa 1991) Dan Curtis hired him, and it was when he became an employee of DCP that he took over and made the Fests a marketing tool. Before that, it sounds like putting them on was a labor of love for the fans.  Couldn't it be that way again?

ProfStokes

[michael c]

as far as the "no actor guests at all" part i don't think we need to fear this much.

even if the "offical" d.c.p. festival is discontinued i'm sure any other organized fan gathering will be seen by numerous actors as an opportunity to push their own businesses.

as long as lara parker has books to sell,kathryn leigh scott cds and diana millay trips to outer mongolia it's in their best interest to attend this type of event.lara probably sold 300 copies of her book at this year's fest if not more.much more than she likely sold doing promotions in book stores across the country.this event guarentees a density of fans they are unlikey to encounter elsewhere.

i know many of the actors attend other types of horror/sci-fi/comic conventions that are not specific to d.s. but they see them as good business opportunities.

in other words invite them and they will come.

[CrazyJenny]

I'm not sure what Jim Pierson's role in the event was at this stage, but later (circa 1991) Dan Curtis hired him, and it was when he became an employee of DCP that he took over and made the Fests a marketing tool.
ProfStokes

I was very young when I started attlending the fests,so I'm a little fuzzy on actual dates.  But I do know that Jim was the Festival Chairman at least a few years before he went to work for Dan Curtis.  I believe that was actually in 89, so my guess would be that he took over around 84 or 85?  It wasn't because of his connection with Dan Curtis that he took over.

[Nancy]

iin other words invite them and they will come.

I tend to agree with you, however, one thing that gets factored into the "good business opportunities" is whether or not their trip is being paid for and how much of their expenses are covered by whatever event they are flying in to attend.  I know some of the DS actors will attend a con, if it's local, if they feel they don't have anything to lose but time.

Nancy

[Midnite]

I was very young when I started attlending the fests,so I'm a little fuzzy on actual dates.  But I do know that Jim was the Festival Chairman at least a few years before he went to work for Dan Curtis.  I believe that was actually in 89, so my guess would be that he took over around 84 or 85?

Pierson became the Festival chairperson in 1986.

[Raineypark]

For the record, I don't give a hoot about the performers.  I go to see my friends.  The most exciting thing that happened to me at the last Fest was getting lost in the subway.....with a girlfriend!

[adamsgirl]

Here's my problem with this. You mentioned, Nancy, that previous attempts had failed for various reasons. I can understand that, but here's my take on it. Previous attempts have failed for only one reason. The people who've been running it (and Midnite says Jim took over in 1986) have not groomed, so to speak, other people to spell them should they choose not to continue such a large, grueling undertaking. I am under no illusion that this is an easy event to organize. However, had there been people waiting in the wings with the wherewithal and knowledge to do this, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And, please don't get me wrong. I am NOT blaming Jim Pierson. I am simply saying there have been no contingency plans in place, which gives us fans short shrift. What was that movie years ago? "If you build it, they will come"? That's us! We will be there!

[Nancy]

I understand what you are saying, Adamsgirl, and thanks for the clarification.  The point I am trying to get across re the fests as we know them is the sole purpose for its existence is to be a publicity arm.  If they cannot get the people they require to buy what the dealers bring (and the dealers pay for the space), what MPI brings to sell, etc. then there is not a purpose for it to exist as it does.  The so-called "committee" people basically all have stuff to sell at the event.  They have little or nothing to do with the before hand work except to assist with dispensing information, peparing to bring equipment, etc.  There isn't much to get burnt out about.  For Jim, I've seen it as part and parcel of what he does for a living - marketing.  If it ceases to be productive in that area, then naturally he would stop doing them especially if the budget involved was spending more money than breaking even.   Proceeds go to charity, that's for sure, but there still has to be money to at least cover all expenses.  That's just common business practice (which I know you are famliar with yourself).  And the fest, even as non-profit entity, is still a business.

Many of those who have been associated with the festival (the so-called committee) for all these years are themselves dealers.  That's where they spend most of their time at the festivals.  They aren't getting burned out unless they find the profit from sales not happening.

Jim Pierson said in an interview a few years ago, I don't remember which publication carried it, that since Joan Bennett and Jonathan Frid where not present anymore for the fests there was not a big draw anymore.  These two people were big big draws.  When the news hit that Nancy Barrett was attending her first festival, the attendance for that fest soared.  There were over 3,000 in the ballroom when she came on stage for her appearance/performance.  There's not enough excitment for lots of people who attended the fests - they have been there/done that.  The gatherings do, as you indicated, need an injection of fresh blood and those who have different reasons to do DS gatherings.

Nancy

Here's my problem with this. You mentioned, Nancy, that previous attempts had failed for various reasons. I can understand that, but here's my take on it. Previous attempts have failed for only one reason. The people who've been running it (and Midnite says Jim took over in 1986) have not groomed, so to speak, other people to spell them should they choose not to continue such a large, grueling undertaking. I am under no illusion that this is an easy event to organize. However, had there been people waiting in the wings with the wherewithal and knowledge to do this, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And, please don't get me wrong. I am NOT blaming Jim Pierson. I am simply saying there have been no contingency plans in place, which gives us fans short shrift. What was that movie years ago? "If you build it, they will come"? That's us! We will be there!

[Brandon Collins]

Personally, I would be very dismayed if the fests did not continue. Last year was my first fest, so at least I got to go to one, and if it would be the last then at least I chose to go on the 40th Anniversary. I enjoyed my time there very much, and there seemed to be a lot of first timers there aside from me.

While other people go to the fests to see their DS friends, if there will be another fest this year, I likely will not go for that reason. Why? Because I haven't been to enough fests to have gathered the large list of friends that I would recognize every year. I have friends online that are fans of DS, who I may or may not recognize at the fests, but other than that, there's nothing. I'd go to the fest this year to see the stars again, and I'd probably be able to better enjoy myself since for the 40th Anniversary fest I was running around trying to get all these autographs and take pictures etc etc. I would be able to walk about and do what I please, and not have to care about where, when, why, and how to get into an autograph line.

I think the fest needs more fan-oriented events as well. We don't need the same thing every year--the same clips of DS, the same type of programs, the same stage talks and Q & A sessions. I would become quite bored with that should I go to the next fest. No, what we need is fan stuff. A writing contest. People could write short scripts for the stars to perform on stage. There could be one performance each evening. Not only would this (maybe) help to increase participation, but it would allow the fan to get closer to the stars. Maybe the winners could go over the script with the stars, participate in a read through with them, give them direction should they need it. The stars could sign the respective scripts and they could be auctioned off for the chosen charity of that year. Maybe they'd gain some more money.

Another cool fan event would be to pick fan favorite episodes and have people sign up to play the DS characters. We, the fans, could do the same thing that the stars did this past year--recreate the first and last episodes on stage, or episodes of the fans or committee's choosing.

Reading of fanfiction would be wonderful, and would provide a unique opportunity to get your talents out there. Fan Q&A sessions where FANS get up on stage and answer questions about how they got started as a fan of DS, what DS has meant to them throughout the years, what interests them most about the show, what type of memoribilia they have, etc etc. Fans could be chosen for this special Q&A session by a random lottery drawing, the same type that took place at the banquet last year.

These are just a select few ideas that I've just thought up or added on to while sitting here. Feel free to forward them along to the appropriate people Nancy, I won't mind. I'm always here for further questioning! lol