DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: Patti Feinberg on June 12, 2005, 10:39:07 PM
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I don't know what movie I was watching the other day, but it was circa 1980 and I started thinking about Carolyn.
Now, I know most cousins say the beginning of DS she was approximately 17ish; I personally think she was at least 21.
I also totally think she was a college graduate.
So, we see Carolyn as spoiled and somewhat lazy, and certainly non-focused during DS' run. But what as time marched on, and now it's 1980. Most women had entered/re-entered the work force. Carolyn would be in the age range of 28-35ish.
Also, let's calculate...how many WOMEN ran (at least in name) the Collins enterprises; there was Grandmama Edith (she'd of HAD to been in charge, or it wouldn't have been HER choice as to who would run everything after her death...if it had been her husband, his will would have stated it), Judith, Liz....so, even though we've all mentioned David running Collins Enterprises, I think at some point, Carolyn would've had a strong hand in there.
What do you think?
Patti
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Interestng possibiility. I think of Liz as being involved for a long time and perhaps even being groomed by her father for the role. Carolyn really seems to have no interest. However, she did mature after her marriage and widowhood. As the years went on, it's quite possible that she would have become more responsible and eventually take an interest in the business.
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Wasn't Carolyn born in 1947 (she was two years old when her father took off in 1949)? That would make her 19 when the show started.
Anyway, I hypothesize that while Carolyn was growing up, Elizabeth might have kept the apron strings a tad too tight, resulting from her paranoia over thinking she had murdered her husband, not allowing Carolyn to leave the confines of Collinsport much, even attending college elsewhere. So her daughter felt trapped in a backwater town, with, as Nancy Barrett described the character, having "too much money and too much hair" and not being able to do all the Paris Hilton things a young, wealthy heiress would want to do. So, she often became rebellious and daring within the confines of her social prison, resulting in such risque-taking behaviors as boozing it up every night at the Blue Whale, trying to hit on Burke Devlin, and finally doing the ultimate rebellion at what she thought was her own mother's self-destructive behavior by wanting to marry the biker.
Gerard
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I always got the impression that Carolyn was around 18 or 19 and had just gotten out of high school a year or so before Vicki arrived. She was bright and restless and though college would have been a great idea for her, I agree with Gerard's assesment - Liz was clinging to her conciously or subconciously due to her own issues. As time went on you could see her maturing and Nancy Barrett did that very believably too I think. I think the character showed a defininite strong will and intelligence and, had the show continued, it would have made perfect sense for Carolyn to have taken over where here mother left off. Of course, I could see her being less stoic than Liz.
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assuming that carolyn didn't continue to date monsters and her life continued on a more normal path i really don't see her ever running the family business.
she just didn't seen to have the interest or focus.while crafty,carolyn didn't seem especially intelligent either and certainly not well edjucated.plus she hated collinsport.i think after elizabeth and roger died caroyln and david would have sold off what remained of the business and moved on.
seeing how she went from one high-drama relationship to the next i think caroyln craves drama and excitement instinctively.it's a core part of her person.she probably would have lead a rather dilettantish life.flitting from one activity to the next.maybe taking up painting or some sort of "artsy" time-waster.shopping for expensive cloths and hitting the spas.and of course an endless string of husbands and flings. :P
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I don't know mscbryk, that sounds more like the horror show that is Paris Hilton. LOL! After her tragic marriage to Jeb, I think Carolyn started to get a little more serious. I really could have seen her calming down to the point that she would have realized that keeping the business profitable was a good thing vs squandering it all. But, if she did vacate, hopefully the estate would have remained in the family. I can't stand the thought of it being subdivided and covered with little gated communities of Collins wannabees. They might turn the old estate into a clubhouse or something. Oh, it's all too depressing to think about!!! :'(
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castlebee...i haven't seen the jeb hawkes storyline yet so i was basing my observation on early carolyn who was really rather flighty.but i do look foreward to seing carolyn grow.
it would be awful if collinwood was sold and subdivided.someone at the fest last year who had been there told me that the actual house(the carey mansion i think)has fallen into terrible disrepair. :(
i wonder if it could have been aranged so that barnabas could take possesion of the property since he ain't going anywhere.
but i would never speak of darling carloyn in the same breath as paris hilton! ;)
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I think they state that she's about 18 or 19 in the beginning. She is definitely out of high school, but has no college background. I know later on they sort of flip her age so she seems older than Vicki, but in the first year of the series, she's definitely under 20.
At one point when Liz is in one of her coma's (and Bennett was on vacation), Carolyn is put in charge of the cannery. I can't say that she embraces her mission with any kind of enthusiasm. Sardines and the canning thereof ain't all that glamorous.
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I think Carolyn did ok at running the cannery during Liz's coma. Roger's nose was out of joint that this mere snippet of a young thing was running things her way and not doing it his way. Carolyn stood up to him during the Dr. Guthrie time. I always thought emotions aside, that she was an intelligent woman who unfortunately made bad choices based on her heart rather than her head.
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Now, I know most cousins say the beginning of DS she was approximately 17ish;
Carolyn's own words tell us that she's 17. In ep #5 Carolyn explains to Vicki that Liz hasn't left Collinwood for 18 years - since six months before Carolyn was born.
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I think Carolyn's age, like many other things on DS, fluctuated according to the need of the storyline. On one hand, Liz has not left Collinwood before Carolyn was born. And then later Liz never left Collinwood after Carolyn was two-years-old. I guess we should just take both, add them together, divide by half, and that'll be the age of Carolyn when her mother isolated herself, and give us Carolyn's age at the beginning of the series. The birth records office in the Collinsport county courthouse must be a real mess.
Gerard
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I guess we should just take both, add them together, divide by half, and that'll be the age of Carolyn when her mother isolated herself, and give us Carolyn's age at the beginning of the series.
Hey, I like that idea! [lghy]
But seriously, my rule of thumb for DS is to go with what's mentioned most often, and in most instances within the storylines Carolyn's birth year can be determined (by dialogue, date on a headstone, etc.) as 1949, and that's consistent with her being 17 at the start of the series. Her backstory during Leviathans is a glaring aberration. But then I suppose the writers felt it was more poignant for Carolyn to have been 2-years-old when Paul left than to have been -6 months because 1) Paul would never have even seen his daughter, and 2) he may not have even known that Liz was pregnant - both of which certainly wouldn't have worked with the notion that Carolyn was Paul's "most precious possession".
The birth records office in the Collinsport county courthouse must be a real mess.
Along with every other records office in Collinsport! [wink2]
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According to the post-DS storyline articles, Caroline was to have developed an interest and become an authority on the occult. She was to have studied and worked with Elliot Stokes.
During many of the early episodes, Liz would constantly remind Roger she was holding the family empire together for David. Apparently Roger had so disgraced himself in her eyes she would never consider turning it over to him.
Jeff
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I think 1948 is the most plausible year of Carolyn's birth. Remember Carolyn's dream in the Dream Curse where she saw her own tombstone? It had a December 1948 birthdate. Also, we know that Paul walked out on Liz in 1949 as per both the Jason McGuire and Leviathan storylines. Carolyn was an infant then, and to add insult to injury, Paul left in December 1949, just around Carolyn's first birthday. Let's not forget that Paul wanted to take with him various stocks, bonds and other financial items that Liz had intended for Carolyn- a damn good reason for Liz to get very angry at her slimy husband- a rat who would walk out on his child on the eve of her first birthday and steal her inheritance as well! That poker sure came in handy.......
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I think perhaps we're forgetting the times in which both the production, AND the internal story of the show, were taking place. This was the very beginning of the rise of feminist ideology. Once freed from the "dead hubby in the basement" horror, Liz was in a position to be not only the driving force of her family business, but also a leading figure in the community. And I think the character would have chosen exactly that path, considering the things she'd already handled in her life.
That being the case, I think Carolyn would have followed in those foot steps. I never saw her as a pretty face on an empty head, and I can picture her demanding the chance to run the family business either instead of David, or in partnership with him. In addition to her mother, she certainly had an example in Julia Hoffman.
Let's also keep in mind how many strong women there were in the production company...women TV directors were still a rare thing, and DS had one. If the show had remained on the air, I think the women characters would have acquired some of the same feminist ideals that the women who worked on the show might have had. I think it's safe to say that eventually many well known soap characters of the era in other shows, did exactly that.
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I can see Carolyn taking over the feet and cannery before I see her becoming a parapsychologist. Her only interest in the "other world" seemed confined to unwittingly dating its denizens. She also seems to have become more serious and grown up as the series went on, and I could definitely see her running things. I imagine her running the business with an assist from David. Actually, David seems more likely to go the parapsychologist route, considering his propensity for coming into contact with the supernatural. I think Jamison Selby was on the right track with turning the character into an archaeologist. I see him becoming more of a Mulder (X-Files) type, retaining a somewhat child-like curiosity and fascination with the mysterious. I see a Liz and Roger situation - like Liz, Carolyn would run things and like Roger, David would sort of help out.
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I meant taking over the FLEET, not the FEET. :P :)
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I meant taking over the FLEET, not the FEET.
Not to worry - I think we all knew that. ;) In fact, I was in a warmhearted mood (which you can't always count on :D) and was going to add the missing "l" to your post - but then I noticed that you'd posted your own correction.
As for Carolyn going into parapsychology, I can see it. During the Summer of '70 storyline, the writers did seem to be laying the groundwork for Carolyn's realization that she is the reincarnation of Leticia Faye (which Sam Hall also mentions in his article), and I can definitely see Carolyn investigating that possibility with Prof. Stokes. Though, at the same time, that needn't have prevented her from also getting into the Collins businesses. In ep #268, Liz tells Roger that both Carolyn and David will always be her heirs. And while I don't believe there's ever a point in the series in which Liz actually explains who gets what, something tells me Liz planned for Carolyn to have some sort of place in the businesses - particularly after Carolyn was able to run them so well while Liz was in the hospital after her confrontation with Laura and when Liz was believed to be dead.
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As for Carolyn going into parapsychology, I can see it. During the Summer of '70 storyline, the writers did seem to be laying the groundwork for Carolyn's realization that she is the reincarnation of Leticia Faye (which Sam Hall also mentions in his article), and I can definitely see Carolyn investigating that possibility with Prof. Stokes. Though, at the same time, that needn't have prevented her from also getting into the Collins businesses.
Oh, I can totally see her pursuing parapsychology. The time, the place, the fact that she didn't have external pressures on her to find a real job--all very much her kind of style. She's one of those people who need to be forced down a career path--probably by some external circumstantial pressures. Left to her own devices, she's the kind of person who would flit around aimlessly until it was too late and she was a total flake. I have nothing against parapsychology, but I don't think Carolyn would have been anymore devoted to that than she was to anything else.
Butgiven the right circumstances (e.g. there's nobody else to take charge or she gets shamed into it), I can see her pursuing and succeeding at something like the family business.
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During the Summer of '70 storyline, the writers did seem to be laying the groundwork for Carolyn's realization that she is the reincarnation of Leticia Faye
Good point! I had forgotten about that plot thread. As Luciaphil points out though, I don't think she'd remain devoted to the pursuit of preternatural phenomena. I see David going down that path moreso than Carolyn.
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I cannot picture Carolyn wanting to run a stinky sardine cannery. I bet poor Roger wished every day that he hadn't blown his inheritance and got stuck there.