DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 II => Topic started by: wes on November 09, 2003, 04:37:54 AM
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Is Dan Chasing Shadows Again? (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=6606ac4cc1f22f4&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=%22John+Wells%22+%22Dark+Shadows%22&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.creature-corner.com%2Fnews4%2Fnov06darkshadows.php3)
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"...writer John Wells is working on an untitled vampire project which may turn out to be revamped Dark Shadows (following in the footsteps of the 1966 smash TV series). Original producer Dan Curtis is the new show's co-executive producer and the lead character is named "Barnabas" and described as 'a seductive, dangerous, complex, athletic, flawed, timeless and handsome man who will lead us into another world.'"
-- from "Dynamic Forces"
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Interesting.
One can only hope that John Wells will bring a fresh perspective to the story. But it's probably not a good idea for any of us to get our hopes up that this project might get farther along than any of the others have in the past 10 years. I won't start to hope that something might come of it until they're actually casting and there's a firm commitment to film...
Thanks for posting the info. :)
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:o I can't help but be excited about this news. Yes, I know I could be headed for a huge disappointment, but SOME network should take advantage of the almost unbelieveable popularity (even now) of DS. I doubt that when SciFi ends the series in Dec., interest will end also. Never did before-----not likely to now.
Misty ;D ;D
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They should just let it alone.
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One can only hope that John Wells will bring a fresh perspective to the story.
Is anyone familiar with what writer John Wells has done previously?
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Is anyone familiar with what writer John Wells has done previously?
The John Wells I was thinking of when I first read the announcement is the one who has written for the TV shows The West Wing, Third Watch and ER. But a search of the Internet Movie Database brings up another John Wells who has written such feature films as Princess Caraboo, and another who wrote produced and edited films in the '20s, but I suppose we can probably eliminate him. ;)
I don't think the site wes forwarded us to gave any credits for the John Wells working on the DS project, so I guess only time will tell...
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I'd love to be wrong, but I have the feeling this is one of those "Nothing to see here, move along" moments.
--Mark
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I have the feeling this is one of those "Nothing to see here, move along" moments.
Unfortunately, you're probably right. :(
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I'd love to be wrong, but I have the feeling this is one of those "Nothing to see here, move along" moments.
Not only that but why can't Dan Curtis or others come up with another original idea? Seems the notion of originality is at a premium anymore. Move on already!
Nancy
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Original idea!
;) Mr. Curtis' major contribution may have been putting the original ideas of other people together to form something greater than its parts -- the Dark Shadows serial.
::) His own best creative work isn't even that prominent on Dark Shadows.
:-X As far as Dark Shadows goes, I'm not sure there is any more there there!
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TV Guide is reporting today on its website that The WB is developing a new DS for Fall 2004.
So what will it be like on The Frog? Barnabas' Creek? Collinwood? The Julia Hoffman Experiment?
If they tinker with DS the way they have with Angel this year, then expect this DS to go the way of Tarzan.
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Crossing Barnabas?
TV Guide is reporting today on its website that The WB is developing a new DS for Fall 2004.
So what will it be like on The Frog? Barnabas' Creek? Collinwood? The Julia Hoffman Experiment?
If they tinker with DS the way they have with Angel this year, then expect this DS go go the way of Tarzan.
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Crossing Barnabas?
I think I like Collins Ghouls. And maybe there could be crossover episodes where Barnabas and Company visit that other WB small New England town, Stars Hollow. There are enough eccentrics there as it is so someone like Barnabas wouldn't stand out in the slightest. [lghy]
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I think I like Collins Ghouls. And maybe there could be crossover episodes where Barnabas and Company visit that other WB small New England town, Stars Hollow. There are enough eccentrics there as it is so someone like Barnabas wouldn't stand out in the slightest. [lghy]
Ooh! Barnabas could take a bite out of Lorelai Gilmore!
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Ooh! Barnabas could take a bite out of Lorelai Gilmore!
Exactly! And if Willie gets too far out of line, Barnabas could replace him with Kirk. [wink2]
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"That creepy Barnabas Collins is getting a new lease on undead life. The WB is resurrecting the classic ABC vampire sudser Dark Shadows for fall 2004," Variety reports.
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I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic and keep my fingers crossed about the new show.
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Exactly! And if Willie gets too far out of line, Barnabas could replace him with Kirk. [wink2]
Kirk would be a perfect fill-in whenever Willie has the day off. And, just think, instead of getting a drink at the Blue Whale, Maggie could take her Pop for a burger and fries Luke's ;D
grayson67 (Melissa)
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The Variety article that David called attention to in a separate thread, but which is being discussed here, makes it sound almost like a done deal. Yet the show might not even be picked up after a pilot is made! Unless WB is firmly committed to developing the show ... maybe a network commitment would make a difference, and it sounds like WB really wants to do it.
I was able to read the entire Variety article (not that it was very long) because I coincidentally have a temporary membership. But I don't feel I should abuse that free membership by posting the article here (in addition to copyright concerns). It says that Wells is the executive co-producer and Verheiden will write the pilot.
All parties have declined to comment as "a formal deal is still being hammered out."
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They should just let it alone.
I agree.
Nancy
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To be honest, a new dark shadows would have the best chance on The WB. The other networks dont let the show have a chance. If WB really wants this show, they will keep it around for a bit. Of course, its has to show some signs of viewers. WB doesnt expect their shows to be top 20 hits, since none of thier shows do. It really needs to do well in young demos.
Plus young demos which can be from 12-49. Will promote interest in all of the forms of Dark Shadows to keep its legacy alive.
Look what Smallville did for Superman. Interest in Superman has been dying since the Superman movies. But with a new creative twist it work again.
And that is what new Dark Shadows would have to do. Have a crative twist that isnt a retelling of the original series, revival, and The House of Dark Shadows.
Good things could come of this if its done right.
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Here is what I get out of what I have read here about this new proposal for a DS project. That is all it is at this point, another proposal. This proposal is coming from the outside and probably not from Curtis. They are negotiating to get permission to go ahead with it and that is why it is so hush hush. Seen plenty of these proposals back in the 1980's. None came to pass because Dan Curtis was not about to relinquish control of DS to anyone else. I would doubt he would do that now, but it is always a remote possiblity.
That said, if the rights are secured and a deal hammered out with Curtis, then they have to develop their idea and then if the WB likes the new idea then they commission a pilot, which from what I'm reading has not yet happened and IF a pilot is made and that is a big if, then again if the WB likes it then they will have it go to series and put it on the air. At any step along the process, the plug can be pulled and the whole idea go up in smoke as has happened many many times in the past.
I agree that it is interesting but I also know that the WB has commissioned a pilot for a new version of Lost in Space for next fall so apparently they are dabbling in classic tv concepts to see what they can resurrect, but ultimately may chose to do on none of them.
Frankly after the 1991 version and knowing how youth oriented the WB is, I kind of hate to see how DS might be monkeyed with this time around. The 1991 version was okay but differed greatly in the feel of the show from the original. I can see a WB version being even more different and it perhaps even baring little resemblence to the classic we all love watching so well. I think guarded is how all fans should feel about this idea, especially until more info is released on the proposed project.
Raholt
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I never will understand why fans get so skittish about talk of a new DS -- any production, no matter how good or bad, can do nothing to alter the reputation of the original.
Of all the pilot concepts mooted over the last decade, this one seems the most promising to me. New blood (and before people start whining about dumbing down, bear in mind that John Wells' pedigree in TV drama is hardly for MTV-gen fluff...) and a network that will need retooling of the concept are its best chance.
A straight redux of the series won't work -- it's largely the reason all redux efforts have grounded since 1991, and Dan Curtis finally seems to be facing that fact, so fair play to him.
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The first thing I'm wondering about is the effect this might have on the possibility of the Original being shown on another network now that Sci Fi is through with it.
If Dan Curtis is really up for a new production, might he decide that the original should not be showing at the same time...assuming the decision is now his to make?
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Very, very good points Rainey, Stuart and Raholt.
I've never seen the 1991 version, but I hear, oyevah do I hear.
Gianni, I fully agree about the WB; but, how can DS go towards 12 year olds?
This isn't circa 1967; these kids have been weaned on 'hack-em up type' movies...a 'possible' stranger from 'possibly' a different time wouldn't nay COULDN'T hold their 'interest' for more than two seconds.
(Stuart,,who is John Wells? If he's on MTV, I don't watch it).
But kudos to Rainey!! [ideay] [ideay]That's a brainstorm!!! Yes, seeing stuff on tv guide purportedly about Variety should, in theory, make other stations want to carry DS
Patti
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Why shouldn't it hold a young audience for more than two seconds? The young audience is a smart one -- good stories, well told... that's all it takes to engage any viewer.
John Wells is a writer producer whose credits include ER and The West Wing.
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Not only that but why can't Dan Curtis or others come up with another original idea? Seems the notion of originality is at a premium anymore. Move on already!
I've got to comment on this because we've hit the point of the semester in my fan-themed composition course when we discuss fan creations -- web sites, fan fiction, fan art, and fan music videos (aka songvids or fan vids). It all keeps coming back to this concept of originality and what is original and what is derivative.
As a product of ivory tower culture, I'm supposed to look down on all of this fan nonsense as derivative and unoriginal, but there is a very problematic double standard at play. How can I condemn fan creations as unoriginal when I've spent a great deal of time working with Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde, much of which is derived from Boccaccio's Il Filostrato, Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy, and the work of Dante? Then Shakespeare had to go rework it again as Troilus and Cressida, and God forbid anyone call him unoriginal.
This whole idea of working and reworking the same storyline is central to canonical literature just as much as it is to fandom, and it's even more a part of Dark Shadows fandom because the source product itself, Curtis' series and films and the authorized novels, represent a working and reworking and revising and extending of the same storyline.
So "originality" is a very slippery concept within media fandom in general, perhaps more so in Dark Shadows fandom.
So is Curtis to be condemned for wanting to revisit this story again and again when so many of us do it in the various things that we as fans create? It seems problematic to hold him to a standard that we do not exactly feel held to ourselves.
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Well, I hope that DC and friends don't make the same mistake they made in '91 in not casting any of the old regulars. My bold suggestion:
"Starring KATE JACKSON as Elizabeth Collins Stoddard"
She's practically the same age Joan Bennett was when Joan was on the original series. As a big TV name and a cast member of the original series, this will be something to please everybody! Since this is for the WB, don't be surprised if the characters will be younger than we remember. A thirtysomething Barnabas? Could be......
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;D Yes -- they really should do a modern "Dark Shadows" -- that's exactly the idea in bringing in other (newer) writer, producer.
::) Yes -- the original show was original... even though it collected mostly un-original ideas... because the sum of what it collected WAS original. The sum of the parts was greater than the whole. It became unique and original in the way noted by MsChriseyde (up there) so well.
;) Yes -- Kate Jackson would be a great Elizabeth Collins Stoddard. The best actress for the part would be Alexandra Moltke Isles, of course; but she'd turn it down. They sould hire Jonathan Frid to be the narrator. Johnny Dep wanted to play Barnabas. Is he older? I'm guessing he's in his 30s, but I don't know... Probably an actor in his 30s today would be like an actor in his 40s in the 60s.
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My teenaged expert informs me that Mr. Depp is already 40 years old. And somehow I doubt he'll be trading his family and home life in the south of France to do a weekly TV series. A film version, perhaps, but not TV.
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Hey, I want to hear more about this possible Lost In Space remake. Natch, as a kid, I never missed an episode of that. While everyone later on wanted to be a Brady, I always wanted to be a Robinson.
Gerard (Who's Wondering If Maggie Evans Ever Considered Being The Governess to Penny And Will Robinson)
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IMHO, there is no right or wrong here. It's understandable to feel guarded about the whole thing. After all, development deals for new shows fall apart every day, according to the entertainment press. And of course none of us wants to see a new version of our favorite show that's total crap.
That aside, the WB would be a fine place to see a new Dark Shadows series. I'm sure they could do a rendition that didn't dumb things down. And so what if they retell some of the story we're already familiar with? As long as it's good writing, good acting and compelling storytelling I'll be watching.
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Well, I can't say I have high hopes - most of the stuff I love about the original is just not possible to recreate: the tension/excitement/gaffes of the "live" show, the cast of mostly stage actors and, of course, Jonathan Frid.
But, heck, I don't mind thinking positively: if they could get Alan Rickman to dye his hair, add some more humor and still give it a moody feel like Joss Whedon's "Ripper" was supposed to have, I'd be there.
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Frankly after the 1991 version and knowing how youth oriented the WB is, I kind of hate to see how DS might be monkeyed with this time around. The 1991 version was okay but differed greatly in the feel of the show from the original. I can see a WB version being even more different and it perhaps even baring little resemblence to the classic we all love watching so well. I think guarded is how all fans should feel about this idea, especially until more info is released on the proposed project.
I wouldn't mind seeing a fresh face put on a new Dark Shadows. Don't entirely throw out all of the elements of the daytime DS and please, please don't Hollywoodize it with 'butt' kicking 14 yr old females or another glossy remake of the 1991 series. And for the love of macaroni and cheese, don't film it in California. Is that too much to ask? ;D
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I have to add my 2 cents worth about the 1991 version's demise: I believe it was no fault of the production that NBC didn't renew it but rather that NBC's scheduling, and changing the Fridy night time without notice to the audience and lastly--please don't start beating me up about this--that unnecessary Gulf War started by a certain U.S. President's father. That short war killed a lot of business, and more than one TV series. (This is not to start a dialogue about the current war, but to point out that two Bushes don't make a right!)
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Hey gang,
After the NBC Dark Shadows revival series was cancelled back during the early 1990s, I remember reading some comments at the time, by Dark Shadows fans on the advisability of resurrecting Dark Shadows on another network.
Said one apparently disgruntled, longtime fan: "No, Dan Curtis has already done enough damage with the NBC series."
However, the always wonderfully sardonic Louis Edmonds had, perhaps, the best comment on the short-live series. In a 1991 TV Guide article, the late, great Mr. Edmonds commented: "I tuned in out of curiosity-and I almost made it through the first half-hour."
Dark Shadows was a magical and thoroughly unique television program that ran from the summer of 1966 through the early spring of 1971. I doubt if anyone could ever recapture the sheer brilliance and absolute zaniness of that great and truly beloved television program. As Thomas Wolfe once observed in the title of one of his novels: "You Can't Go Home Again." And neither, apparently, can Dan Curtis and company.
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I'd be pleased to see a new Dark Shadows done some kind of justice, but one simply can't go in expecting to find much, if any, of the original magic. Some folks figure that if it can't be recaptured, it's best not to bother. I don't go that far, but I know that a (second) revival would have to succeed in capturing a new audience--one that's more than a mere supplement to the existing fan base, which is considerable but insufficient to sustain the number of viewers WB, or any other network, would demand to justify the show's existence. That means it has to make its own magic and not merely attempt to draw upon the old, which is impossible anyway. The 91 series had a lot of problems, but it also had its own unique character that was shot in the foot, largely due to extenuating circumstances, before it could hit its stride. If it had been allowed to continue and develop, I think it might have conjured up a bit more magic than a lot of people give it credit for.
Yet another rehash of the original story would probably alienate a good many older viewers who are justifiably weary of a dead horse being thrashed. Personally, if that's what it was to be, I honestly don't know how inclined I'd be to stick with it. The people and places in DS have loads of potential for development beyond that narrow story arc, and I'd bet it could be done in such a way that both new and old viewers could find some magic to latch on to. Hell, for a buck, I'd be giving it a shot....
--Mark
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I find myself agreeing with all of the views expressed here -- and I'm developing a split personality as a result! ;D
Miss Winthrop expresses what I fear most:
please, please don't Hollywoodize it with 'butt' kicking 14 yr old females or another glossy remake of the 1991 series. And for the love of macaroni and cheese, don't film it in California.
But I'm cautiously optimistic after reading comments like CassandraBlair's:
of course none of us wants to see a new version of our favorite show that's total crap.
That aside, the WB would be a fine place to see a new Dark Shadows series. I'm sure they could do a rendition that didn't dumb things down. And so what if they retell some of the story we're already familiar with? As long as it's good writing, good acting and compelling storytelling I'll be watching.
Ms. Crisyde makes an excellent point about originality -- Shakespeare is a good example of someone whose work was almost entirely based on other works (old plays, literary works from Italy and France, legends, historical chronicles, etc.), but which he always transformed these into something new and original in their own rights.
Raholt, you've probably seen the brief writeup from "Variety" by now (since it's in the online Shadowgram announcement), but anyway, Dan Curtis is involved in the project -- as co-executive producer, I think it says.
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:D I think WB will have a hit with DS if they cast it properly. That was something the original series had a lot of luck with.
:-X Depp is 40? He looks a bit younger, but maybe I'm thinking of whatever I last saw him in. He would still be a good Barnabas. Even if he is "older" now, he's still younger than Jonathan Frid was in the 60s (of course, Frid would look younger, too, if her were 40 today with all the "help" you get!). Depp could be the new DS' Heather Locklear. Then, they could get younger dudes and dudettes for other roles.
;D Shakespeare was kinda like the Dan Curtis of his time, if I follow the above correctly?
"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
-- Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5
8) Maybe Mark Rainey could help write it!
::) so, we have
starring KATE JACKSON as Elizabeth Collins Stoddard
also starring JOHNNY DEPP as Barnabas Collins
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and ??????? as Victoria Winters
(please, NOT Paris Hilton...)
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You can be fairly certain that if a pilot is filmed it will be shot either in California or Vancouver. The WB likes to maintain control of their shows by having them shot in their backyard. Also, Wells and Verheiden's other show commitments leaves them pretty certain on staying in LA.
I feel the show would have to stand on its own merit and do something different. All the slightly tweaked carbon copy approaches written after the 1991 series never got off the ground, and I get the feeling from the article that it's going to be quite a rethink. That could of course be a great thing or not. But do remember that this is the WB and they have a certain 20-something style that I'm sure will be part of the new approach.
As fun as he would be, we can pretty much rule out Johnny Depp. He's a huge movie star and I doubt he's going to take a step down in position and salary to star in the grind that is a weekly TV series...Now if they were to do a feature, my votes would be him or Hugh Jackman...
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Excellent points, Criseyde.
My issue with the notion of a new DS is that I don't believe Mr. Curtis did all that well with the 1991 version. I wasn't able to watch it past the fifth episode.
There are basically 36 Master Plots dramatists use over and over again reinventing a formula and adding a new twist or dimension to the newer mix. Of course, the original DS borrowed liberally from many well known literary works too but the overall concept of the series was indeed original. In my new Mr. Curtis did not do a good job in reimagining the original series in the 1991 attempt so I remain skeptical about yet another reincarnation. Maybe it should be "Collinwood, the Next Generation" or some departure of that ilk. [a1f5]
Nancy
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;D Shakespeare was kinda like the Dan Curtis of his time, if I follow the above correctly?
Umm, no. I was merely pointing out that one of the most culturally revered writers could easily be accused of being unoriginal if your criteria for originality involved new storylines and characters.
Curtis employed techniques that all writers/creators/producers, including Shakespeare use, which Nancy noted above in reference to the formulaic storylines that are reworked.
(This is obviously not the forum for it, but I generally take issue with the extremely high pedestal upon which WS has been placed based on reading other writers from the period whose work is as good, if not better. Same holds true with the notion that Chaucer is apparently the only Middle English poet for some people.)
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I've never heard or read anyone else say this, but in my opinion "Othello" is basically and essentially a soap opera. The academicians would probably be shocked by this assertion ... but that particular play, IMO, doesn't come close to the greater tragedies, like Lear or Hamlet. Those two were based on older plays and/or legendary material.
I agree that Shakespeare has eclipsed scores of other worthy Elizabethan era poets and dramatists, some of whose works I enjoy more than some of WS's, but possibly none of these others matched the scope of Shakespeare's canon. :) The medieval playing field has fewer names to choose from, but here I do tend to give Chaucer credit as "greatest" both for the vast scope of his work but also for the level of his poetry. But some individual lyric works of the Middle Ages by other poets, often anonymous, are matchless.
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Good for you, Criseyde. I could not agree more with what you said on this subject. I taught an undergraduate class some years ago called "Beowulf to the Beatles" and we discussed the great lyrical writing that exists beyond the noted "superstars" of literature.
I suppose it's not all that much different now since there are many lesser known writers who are equally (if not) better writers than the commercially successful ones of our day.
nancy
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I personally prefer Marlowe. And John Webster... the Duchess of Malfi is a fabulous play, perhaps one of the very greatest plays in the English language.
Not to say that Willie the Shake is chopped liver, of course.
G.
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In the possible remake, regarding casting, I'm picturing Fran Drescher playing Angelique.
I don't know why.
Help me.
Gerard (Who's Picturing Fran Drescher's Mom In The Nanny As Elizabeth Collins Stoddard)
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Gerard, Fran Drescher as Angelique is indeed horrifying. Especially in her Cassandra mode. Can't you just see Ms. D screeching at Sam Evans' ghost: "YOU ... WILL ... KNOW ... NO ... REST!!"
I think *I'm* the one who needs help. I live with a Smallville addict, and so help me Goddess, I keep picturing Tom Welling as Barnabas Collins and Kristin Kreuk as Vicki Winters.
where's the dramamine when you need it???
thankfully, I'm quite sure it will die in development.
G.
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[bouncer] WB RAISES "DARK SHADOWS" [bouncer]
[crowdhappy][crowdhappy]
http://www.scififx.com/news/topstory.php?q=4314
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And here's another fine example of misrepresenting a source. This is based on the same Variety piece other media sources have been quoting all week. The difference is that they decided to substitute the original source's description of a negotiation in progress with the phrase "The WB has ordered a pilot."
Apparently, this was written by a former employee of the New York Times. [flaming]
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I'm hearing sound fx of "shattering Glass."
G.
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:-X "...plotline for the updated Shadows is being kept under wraps."
http://www.filmstew.com/Content/DailyNews/DetailsPrinter.asp?ContentID=7248
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and ??????? as Victoria Winters
(please, NOT Paris Hilton...)
I could picture a Paris Hilton type as Carolyn but definitely not Victoria.
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One thing I haven't seen addressed that I believe is important, IMO, is that character development on a weekly series is much slower than a soap opera. I'll admit it will be hard for me not to compare the new series to the original but it would be unfair because the original unfolded daily while the new series will unfold weekly. If you think about it Jonathan Frid appeared in almost 600 episodes of Dark Shadows in less than 4 years while the cast of "Friends" have filmed maybe 200 episodes in 10 years. Just something to consider that it's probably best for us that love the original to keep things in perspective and not judge to harshly.
Murph
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Should it come to pass, I hope it ends up being nothig like the original (so to speak). I couldn't bare watching the Ben Cross series because it was almost a carbon copy (to me) of the soap. It was impossible for me not to compare it and be sorely disappointed. I'd like it to be totally up-to-date with fresh dialogue and fashion. It will be very interesting to see what they come up with if they pull this off.
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"...plotline for the updated Shadows is being kept under wraps."
http://www.filmstew.com/Content/DailyNews/DetailsPrinter.asp?ContentID=7248
Crimey, even these maroons can't spell "Barnabas" correctly...
Hooooold the bus!
--Mark
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I personally prefer Marlowe. And John Webster... the Duchess of Malfi is a fabulous play, perhaps one of the very greatest plays in the English language.
I'm willing to bet you like Marlowe's "Edward II" ;) ... I saw a small theatre group's electric contemporary production of this a few years ago, and there's also Derek Jarman's interesting take on it ...
For 16th century Elizabethan poetry, Sir Thomas Wyatt is unequaled ... Shakespeare's sonnets are complex and challenging, but very static and undramatic; I enjoy reading more Philip Sidney's "Astrophil and Stella" sonnet cycle (whose title personages Dickens' named his Philip "Pip" and Estella after ...).
Not to say that Willie the Shake is chopped liver, of course.
Nicely put! :)
And speaking of literature in relation to DS, I wonder if writers for a new DS could possibly be as literate as they often were on DS. I'm thinking of Barnabas' lengthy speech recounting the death of Josette to Carolyn and Vicki in the drawing room at Collinwood (this was pre-1795/7) ... the range of reading that the writers showed, drawing on classic works of literature ... Roger Collins' recitation of "Dover Beach" ... the knowledge the writers display of customs and language and manners during the various time periods ... there really is a lot of intelligence in a lot of DS that I can't even imagine seeing in a show today.
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Vlad,
Thank you for bringing the literary discussion back to DS. [thumb]
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Vlad wrote:
... the knowledge the writers display of customs and language and manners during the various time periods ...
This makes me think of how much I enjoyed the early Elizabeth Stoddard. While watching the pre-Barn eps for the first time in the 90s, I was so impressed with Liz's dialogue, and how dead-on perfect it was for a woman of her station. Especially in contrast to Roger whom you could tell was raised with equal privilege but had ever so slightly let it go by the wayside. It helped distinguish him from his sister as being less than trustworthy. I think that the pre-Barn writing was very good and extremelly well thought out. You could tell a great deal about the characters just from their grammar and vocabulary.
I also enjoyed and was very impressed with how the writers wrote for Viki before 1968. AM had so many scences with so many different characters. I loved how she was seemingly a different person with each of them. Perhaps this is normal and how writing should be but I personally had never noticed these nuances until I watched this part of the show at that time in my llife. I haven't looked at entertainment in the same way ever since.
It's somewhat funny, though David Collins is in no way close to being my favorite character, many of my favorite scenes from the pre-Barn days consist of scences where the adult characters interacted with him. It was these scenes (the writing) that made my faves, my faves.
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This makes me think of how much I enjoyed the early Elizabeth Stoddard. While watching the pre-Barn eps for the first time in the 90s, I was so impressed with Liz's dialogue, and how dead-on perfect it was for a woman of her station. Especially in contrast to Roger whom you could tell was raised with equal privilege but had ever so slightly let it go by the wayside. It helped distinguish him from his sister as being less than trustworthy. I think that the pre-Barn writing was very good and extremelly well thought out. You could tell a great deal about the characters just from their grammar and vocabulary.
I very much agree with this. Although the pacing of some of the pre-Barnabas episodes (ah, what the hell...the pacing at various points all through the show) leaves something to be desired, the characterizations were strong enough to really carry the program for all those months. Roger and Elizabeth in particular were at their best, but Vicki, too, came off far from the ditz they eventually made her out to be. Mitch Ryan became a personal folk hero during this period and showed how painfully unworthy a replacement Anthony George would turn out to be.
Also -- although I am a diehard fan of Thayer David, George Mitchell made such an excellent Matthew Morgan, I wish he'd stayed in the role. (He's one hell of a character in The Andromeda Strain, too, one of my favorite movies).
--Mark
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Having thought about it for a couple of days, I agree that the early days of the show might be the best upon which to base a new version... There is a strength of characterisation and history for the characters that very little of the show's later years can compete with.
I increasingly think a new series should turn the whole thing on its head... take a handful of the best original characters (Barnabas needn't be amongst them), throw in a few new ones, and take the whole thing back to basics. It needs a sense of dread and remoteness -- Collinwood is a distant threat, casting long shadows over the lives of everyone who lives in Collinsport. Have a community all bound by their secrets and betrayals, with the supernatural lurking around the corner, barely seen but ever-present.
Maybe the other approach is to look at stuff the original series never did and ask why... Why are there no children, for instance. I'd like the idea of something strange, like there have been no children born in Collinsport since Carloyn Stoddard, with a deep, dark threat bubbling to the surface when someone falls pregant. or something. Something that's always been there, but we've never realised before.
Basically, anything but governesses on trains, graverobbing caretakers unleashing cousins from England... it's been done. As Mark pointed out, DS has a much broader range of stories to offer than a sympathetic vampire yearning for love. And a new version that really explores those possibilities could be great fun for everyone.
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::) I do agree there are more interesting stories to tell, but the new DS will (IF IT HAPPENS) certainly focus on the Barnabas character.
:'( The correct way to revive the show would be to do it like "The Next Generation," but I doubt Mr. Curtis would go for that.
;) I don't think it weakens your thesis about Collinsport, but there were children born there. Sometimes, doctors mentioned babies being born, though I can't recall a specific example. Obviously, David was born after Carolyn; so I assume you are thinking he was born elsewhere. He did spend most of 1957-1966 in Arizona.
:D You (wisely) don't mention baby "Joseph-Alexander-Michael." Of course, he wasn't a real kid -- but, he aged like kids on other serials. Amy and Hallie probably spend their early childhood outside Collinsport, I suppose, before they were orphaned.
::) It does seem locical that, newly wedded, Carolyn & Vicki might have seen the stork among the ghosts at Collinwood... or, maybe they thought better of it.
:-[ I'd like the new show, if it happens, to go in the direction Mark & Stuart suggest... BUT, I wouldn't hold my breath on that!
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and ??????? as Victoria Winters
(please, NOT Paris Hilton...)
Only if she dies in the opening scene... I really loath her
LdyAnne <who avoids Hilton hotels>
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i have to add that i feel it has to move on with Barnabas and the next generation. i hated the 1991 version because it was the same.
jennifer
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and ??????? as Victoria Winters
(please, NOT Paris Hilton...)
Only if she dies in the opening scene... I really loath her
LdyAnne <who avoids Hilton hotels>
i agree double ICKY!!!![puke]
jennifer
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Okay...we agree it shouldn't be a straight 'redo'.
DEFINITELY, they should take it s l o w l y.
I think the orig. pacing of the show (pre-1968) was one of the better parts of DS.
You had 'regular' issues/problems, plus, if you watched closely, perhaps there was something ethereal (but you weren't POSITIVE, because it wasn't in your face).
Deep, dark secrets....think Laura Murdoch, Stockbridge, Collins et al. Was it one, or many?
Also, as far as the 'regular' issues; there was possible blackmail (actually, there was definite AND ALSO possible black mail read Roger, Laura, Burke and Sam).
So, what 'extra' type stuff DIDN'T the 'spooky' side of DS deal with?
Mummies....witch stoning (don't laugh, as a youth, this scared & interested me).
How about a whole 'Gaslight' type approach...?
They did Leviathan, but, with cults you could spin it from a few different angles, without getting too preachy.
IMHO....
Patti
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I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments and sense that overwhelmingly, we would all like a Dark Shadows that moves away (but not completely)from the original. I also have an idea for a storyline. Two of the main characters would be similar to the mother and daughter in the movie 'Chocolate'. She being an open minded business woman raising a young daughter in a staunchly conservative town whom although she desires the strictness of a sterner society for her daughter's sake, can't abandon her own liberal leanings. Also, the fishing industry all but died in Collinsport 20 years earlier. A modern, rich entrepeneur who totally rejects the old ways has just arrived and shakes things up with an upstart new industry directly threatening the remaining fishing business. The dark side is that the rich entrepeneur is non-other than David Collins who had totally rejected his inheritance years back but returns to Collinsport a wealthy man in his own right. He will not do business the way the Collinses have been doing it for years. David, highly educated, motivated but also unethical and who appears willing to stop at nothing to return Collinwood to it's former prestige as the main player in Collinsport. He imports workers for his plant from the Carribean. They in turn end up driving the town crazy with their practice of the black arts. These black arts rush headlong towards a collison course with the supernatural manifestation that hangs over Collinswood and the Collins family members who transplanted there from Boston after the death of Elizabeth and Roger. We will meet a new group of Collinses who have only succeeded in driving away business from Collinsport but non-the-less feel threatened by their cousin David who just might end up being their salvation. ;D
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Well, as long as we're borrowing from the movie "Chocolate", can we please have Johnny Depp as the Gypsy Lover? :D And did you mean to leave out the fact that the "mother" practices magic? [winkb]
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hello everyone, i am new here so the end with the greetings. there is a new dark shadows pilot beng produced for the WB network. I cannot help but be concerned for the fact that it is going to be on that network which is known for the kind of meaningless sex,humor and endless casting of all teenage cast for its shows. I have set up some personal requirements for me to watch the show beyond 1 to 3 episodes.
1.It must have the same storylines.
2.same music.
3.same settings.
4.same characters.
in other words it better not differ from the original more than the acceptable changes...
1.different cast playing the familiar characters, not all teenage cast mind you. there is no place for a teenage cast in dark shadows, nor is there a place for a 20 year old elizabeth collins stoddard. nor a 16-2o year old barnabas. the new person playig him must have the appearance of at least a 32 year old man.
this is the things it must not have...
1.no different music.
2.no different storylines.
3.no different characters.
4.no different settings.
5.no all teenage cast.
6.no sex, except the occassional kissing.
7.no humor, unless they decide to let a boom microphone or camera shot in to the scene.
other acceptable changes are maybe different sets for collinwood, the old house, collinsport, e.t.c. and better special effects.
but it must not focus on special effects. it must focus on character, story and atmosphere. these changes may seem to be a little hawkish but thats exactly how i intend to watch and judge this new version... like a hawk.
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;D Thank goodness you didn't rule out animation!
...coming soon!!
...to the WB!!!
[burn] "DARK SHADOWS (The Animated Series)" [burn]
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only in a dream would dark shadows be in animation.
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only in a dream would dark shadows be in animation.
About six or seven years ago there was talk of trying to do an animated version of DS. I can't say I was too disappointed when it didn't pan out because for some reason I pictured it being like DS meets Scooby-Doo - except that perhaps at the end of the episode the "monster" would be real and not Old Mr. Gottfried dressed as the mummy. ;)
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;D That's right! You got it!
8) But, it would be a "dark," "adult" cartoon -- kinda like the new "Batman" one.
:o Certainly, no sillier than:
[hello] "Dark Shadows (The Musical!)"
[angl2] You know, where Barnabas jumps out of the coffin and sings, "Some Enchanted Evening, you will meet a stranger..."
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You know, where Barnabas jumps out of the coffin and sings, "Some Enchanted Evening, you will meet a stranger..."
<Whap!>
;)
--Mark
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Well, as long as we're borrowing from the movie "Chocolate", can we please have Johnny Depp as the Gypsy Lover? :D And did you mean to leave out the fact that the "mother" practices magic? [winkb]
We must have Johnny Depp as Barnabas and not some vagabond gypsy rover (although he'd be so adorable as one :-*) I can see the mother occasionally resorting to making magic but inevitably ending up hating her own abilities. For her, it's all about fitting into the right group in the town for her daughter's sake.
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:o I didn't think of it, 'cause Depp would only play Barnabas -- but, he would be an excellent "Aristede" or "Laszlo," too!
:( Of course, he is unofficially unavailable for the next two years (IE he's "People" mags "Sexiest Man of the Year")
;D Terrific for Johnny Depp, if not for DS. He has tried to be an "actor" before a "star" in his career moves, which I respect.
:) Good job, Mr. Depp. Now that you're the "hot" star of the moment, you're still going to think of your craft first, right?
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Nancybe sends this from the newest issue of TV Guide:
Cheers - to another resurrection of the classic ghost opera Dark Shadows. WB reportedly is close to a deal with Shadows producer Dan Curtis for a new version of the 1960s soap. Welcome back, Barnabas.
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I cannot help but be concerned for the fact that it is going to be on that network which is known for the kind of meaningless sex,humor and endless casting of all teenage cast for its shows. I have set up some personal requirements for me to watch the show beyond 1 to 3 episodes.
TBH, the fans are the last people it needs to please to survive -- and rightly so. From the WB's perspective, we could all switch off after the first episode and it would barely register on the ratings, if at all. We're a blip on the scale, nothing more, so they can take or leave us.
Personally, I'd love to see some more humour in a new series. One of the things I loved about the recent "Return to Collinwood" play was its rich vein of comedy, which genuinely enhanced the story -- it adds a dimension to the characters and brings a touch of welcome reality too. And the show itself was frequently at its strongest when it smirked at its characters and excesses -- don't forget Quentin's bitter line in acid wit, Magda's simpering sarcasm to Barnabas or Count Petofi's penchant for Wildean one-liners. Terrific stuff -- one should never confuse being funny with being silly.
As for a new show, I'm open minded -- I don't really care how true it is to the original, if it has teenagers in, or whether KLS has a cameo... Make it good drama with a few surprises and I'll be a happy viewer.
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;D Some of those WB "teenagers" look a little long in the teeth, if you ask me...
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Nancybe sends this from the newest issue of TV Guide:
Cheers - to another resurrection of the classic ghost opera Dark Shadows. WB reportedly is close to a deal with Shadows producer Dan Curtis for a new version of the 1960s soap. Welcome back, Barnabas.
The same issue of TV Guide made reference to a made-for-TV movie version of Farscape, the popular and critically acclaimed series once produced and aired by Sci-Fi. The snippet states that the show was "prematurely axed" by Sci-Fi, leaving loose ends dangling. I really didn't watch Farscape, but the few episodes I caught showed that it was a very well done series and I can see why it received such praise from viewers and critics. So here was a show, immensely popular, a money-maker for Sci-Fi (I guess it was the most-viewed science fiction television show), and Sci-Fi, for whatever reason, unceremoniously tosses it aside. Fans stormed the castle to save it, but the powers-that-be at Sci-Fi would have none of it. Farscape was history, and nothing would change their minds. Sounds familiar?
So what is up with the lame-brains who now control this network? It seems they don't care about quality or about the fans who make its viability on the cable system possible. They dissed the most successful show they had (Farscape) for reasons known only to them; they dump a classic with a small but solid fan base (Dark Shadows) because they think it's not appealing enough.
Feh.
The article about the Farscape movie states that it will not be airing on Sci-Fi - it will be sold into syndication, so Sci-Fi does not get the chance to make any money off of a commoddity it once produced. Good. It has proven its lack of loyalty to shows which made its success possible; now let those shows (and their fans) take their loyalty elsewhere.
Gerard
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Wow, Gerard. I'd heard about the Farscape mini, but didn't know it wouldn't be airing on SciFi. Good! They don't deserve to make a dime off it!
Though I wasn't a huge fan of the show, it was very well done, and from what I heard, extremely popular. Then they cancelled it so unceremoniously.
Just goes to show that there are a bunch of boneheads running that network!
Perhaps when/if the new series of Dark Shadows gets off the ground, another network will get to show the classic 1966-71 series, and will make a pile of cash from it. That would be karmic comeuppance for SciFi!
But I'm not bitter... ::)
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But I'm not bitter... ::)
I'm not either, Cassandra! ;)
Gerard
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That would be karmic comeuppance for SciFi!
Good one Cassandra Blair!!!!!
Patti