Angelique's Personal Timeline

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I'd like to think she would be able to rise again, her powers restored

I'm certain of it.

[Midnite]

That was just a list, not chronological in her timeline, right?    You don't place 1840 after 1969?

If you're asking me, yes, it was chronological, and I do place 1840 last.  But PennyDreadful and Joeytrom proposed some intriguing theories (see the topic I quoted on p. 1) that did not.

Was it still 1969 when Ang is last seen in the 'present'... I think it becomes 1970 during Leviathans.   ?

You're absolutely right.  She returned to the present in 1969, and Leviathans began in 1969, so I called that chapter in her history 1969, but as you said the storyline stretched into 1970.  And one of her 1795 adventures may have actually occurred in 1796.  Sorry.  I was thinking earlier that it might be why Brandon misunderstood the number of times Angelique revisited the 18th century.

[Brandon Collins]

Magus--

What I mean by drawing a straightline through these events is that I want to put them in the best order that they can possibly be put in so that her timeline makes SENSE in terms of what we were shown in the show. Hope that helps to make it more senseful lol.

[Angelique Wins]

Well, first of all, I subscribe to the quote I once heard (and I wish I could give whoever it was credit...seems like it was a commercial...anyway...here it is)

"I think you're overthinking it."  LOL!

Seriously.  Trying to make sense out of something that really wasn't written to make sense COULD get you a one-way ticket to Windcliff.  However, since I've written almost 900 pages about Ang and Barn in "present day" (post-end of the show), here's my theory.  The only timeline I really dealt with was "how could she have been in 1840 and then came back and did the Cassie thing and then the Angie Rumson thing."  It's not really a spoiler for my story, but if you want to read it from Angie's lips instead, I'll put it in a spoiler box.

[spoiler]After 1840, Angie was dead.  But it didn't work for "her old master" to have her dead and LOSE all that delightful wickedness in the 1970s, so all of her memories of Barn and Julia and Company in 1840 were hidden from her.  Once she passed the point where it didn't matter if she remembered or not, Judah's punishment was reinstated, removing her powers but restoring her memories were restored.[/spoiler]

Near the end of Leviathan, she and Quentin both commented that it had been a LONG TIME.  Did that mean they both LIVED through the years?  I have no idea.  

Judy

[adamsgirl]

Angelique's memories of her life as Miranda, yet references are made to her birth and childhood:
[spoiler]When Gerard called her Miranda DuVal, Valerie/Angelique recognized the name.  She recalled her life as a young servant, being in Judah's coven, fearing the spell he had over her and later testifying at his trial, his vow to get revenge on the Collinses and her, and his disposition.  And she is afraid he returned to make good on his threat.  However, Nicholas revealed that Angelique was born in 1774, and Natalie once described her childhood in Martinique.[/spoiler]

Thanks for refreshing my memory, Midnite. I had completely forgotten that.

[Brandon Collins]

You're totally right, AW! Perhaps Julia ought to show up right this second with a straight jacket, a van, and a purse full o' sedatives and haul me away. Usually I don't get so wrapped up in things like these because I KNOW that it's never going to be sorted out.

I mean, honestly, we can't say for sure that this or that happened, or how it happened. The fact is that a number of people have already answered for themselves in their own fanfiction anyway. And it's pretty unlikely that we'll ever get a canon representation of what really happened and in what order.

But you know what?! I'm throwing caution to the wind, because it sure is a helluva lotta fun to speculate.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I'm throwing caution to the wind, because it sure is a helluva lotta fun to speculate.

And that's exactly one of the things these boards are for. 

[Angelique Wins]

You're totally right, AW!

Thanks for clarifying that.     I know I'm right, but sometimes other people don't agree.  Silly people.  

Perhaps Julia ought to show up right this second with a straight jacket, a van, and a purse full o' sedatives and haul me away.

Nah.  I don't think Julia was in the van and straightjacket part of Windcliff, but I bet she might want to show you a crystal from a chandelier and ask if you could help her find the center...either that or a great big honkin' thing that she called a medallion.  Looked like a bad day at 'Arts and Crafts' to me.

Usually I don't get so wrapped up in things like these because I KNOW that it's never going to be sorted out.

I mean, honestly, we can't say for sure that this or that happened, or how it happened. The fact is that a number of people have already answered for themselves in their own fanfiction anyway. And it's pretty unlikely that we'll ever get a canon representation of what really happened and in what order.

But you know what?! I'm throwing caution to the wind, because it sure is a helluva lotta fun to speculate.

Of course it's fun.  And here, I'm gonna have to insist that YOU are right.  Cause it IS fun to speculate.  So don't stop.  It's a blast!    And that's the whole point of fan fic, right?  Of course, right.  (See, there I go again being right.)

Thanks for refreshing my memory, Midnite. I had completely forgotten that.

::sigh::  And here I thought you were going to wax rhapsodic about my wonderful theory, or about my stellar storyline.    Fame and glory are such fickle animals, aren't they?    LOL!

Judy

[MagnusTrask]

You'll think I'm taking things too seriously here.  In response to Brandon and one or two others:

I think that once we come to DS boards and spend a significant amount of time here, the "get a life" boat has already sailed.   I might have mangled a metaphor there.  Anyway, we're already in fandom up to our necks, an activity that the "outside world" generally considers nuts, so we may as well relax.  

I know the remarks about straight jackets etc were just tossed off in a light-hearted way, so please bear with my occasional need to respond to such things.

I think it's a precious thing, when a TV series can take us out of ourselves, and get us to want to lose ourselves in it.   If real life were enough, this wouldn't happen.    We've created a pretty antiseptic culture which creates a healthy urge to escape.    

Society accepts any activity no matter how pointless, as long as the majority does it.  Football obsession never causes anyone to say "get a life".   DS is a smarter and more imaginitive "waste of time" than most.   The DS story certainly connects more with human experiences, motivations, and relationships than any game.  

I think a need to make sense of a story that you find compelling is more connected to life than working out pi to whatever number of digits, or any of those games Mensa groups play to test themselves or show off.   Math is important-- I'mn just saying DS must be.   The story is complelling... there must be reasons for that.

And now you will excuse me I'm sure, while I put on my Barnabas coat and put in my fangs, and walk around in public for awhile, beating passers-by with my wolf cane made out of a curtain rod and aluminum foil taped to the end.

This is just a slight detour from the topic.  It's out of my system now.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

This is just a slight detour from the topic.  It's out of my system now.

However, you make some excellent points that can never be made too often. And I doubt many of us here would disagree with them.    (Though I do have to say that sometimes I actually wish my real life wasn't as active as it is so that I could get all the stuff that needs to be done around here done quicker. (After all, as I've mentioned several times, my presence on this forum is a mere ghost of a wisp compared to my counterpart [Unknown] on the SMF forum - he's now up to 172d 8h 35m on that forum and 34,907 posts - and in less than half the time this forum has been active - I feel so absent and inactive in comparison.) But the work gets done eventually...)

[Midnite]

Bravo, MagnusTrask, for your comments about the joys of escapism! 

Near the end of Leviathan, she and Quentin both commented that it had been a LONG TIME.  Did that mean they both LIVED through the years?  I have no idea.  

Me neither, but it's an outstanding point.  (I love that scene, btw, and I adore the spotted coat Angelique wore.)  She also tells Quentin, "We're both a great deal older."  The problem for me is that it still doesn't tell us if she lived through all the years between 1897 and 1969 (as Quentin did), or just some of them; all we know for sure is that she disappeared toward the end of 1897.  But would she have risked pursuing a modeling career-- a very public vocation, and possibly after having already given up her powers-- at the same time that her past self was torturing the local residents of Collinwood?  Does DS canon even allow for that to happen?  So even if Angelique remained on Earth beyond the 1897 storyline, she may still have eventually time skipped to a point in the present after Cassandra's destruction.

[Jackie]

You'll think I'm taking things too seriously here.  In response to Brandon and one or two others:

I enjoyed your post.  I have to admit it is my DS interest that got me into some writing fanfic.  Otherwise I don't think I would have started write.

[Brandon Collins]

Well said Magnus!

And to AW--how silly of me to state the obvious.

And finally.....I don't really know if Angelique lived from 1897-1969 in one lump sum. I'd prefer to think she'd do what she pleases, so it's hard to say--she could've returned to hell to have fun with her playthings, or she could've traveled the world to get new playthings. Which is more likely? The latter I'd suppose. After all, somewhere during this period she obviously gets over Barnabas, or so she thinks, and attempts to move on with her life.

[quentincollins]

Until 1840 , the series always made it fairly clear that Angelique 's timline followed Barnabas's . She arrives in 1968, follows Barnabs  back to 1796,is burned by Ben and sent back to Hell for 101 years ,  then is resurrected  in 1897 by Quentin and Evan. In 1796 and 1897 , Angelique confirms to Barnabas that she had  experienced every previous meeting that he's had with her . Then Angelique is seen next as Sky Rumson's wife in 1970. I always though she had lived thru all the years from 1897 , although that's unclear.
1840 is where everything gets confusing . Angelique has been traveling with Lazlo and visits Barnabas 's tomb every year . She doesn't know Julia and seems to truly be the Angelique from this era . Presumably she was resurrected after Barnabas was entombed .Then at the end of 1840 she removes her curse , loses her powers and dies . This would seem to contradict what we've seen from her before . How could this Angelique go on to be the Angelique we've already seen in 1968? Well, when Barnabas, Julia and Stokes returnto the present , they have changed time , and Elizabeth doesn't even know they were gone . So that could be the answer . That because of time travel , time has been changed , and Angelique from 1840 died  a mortal death and did not go on to be reborn in the modern day , just as Quentin's fate was changed and he was not a ghost haunting 20th century Collinwood. For that matter , Brnabas traveled back in time using I-Ching , but came forward thru the time staircase ! So his coffin post 1840 would be empty !
Minor spoiler for Big Finish's audio series and Return to Collinwood ( both of which I highly recommend ) [spoiler]Angelique is resurrected in both of those , and seems to have memories of both 1840 and the other time periods we've seen her live thru .
I just chalk that up to her having memories from both versions of history , having been dead so many times and all . Barnabas had memories of both Phyllis Wick and Victoria being Sarah's governess post 1795, he confirms this with Julia shortly after Vicky's return .[/spoiler]
And shouldn't Angelique Rumson still have been alive , as we saw her last shortly before PT1970 ?
DS was pretty sloppy in cleaning up their paradoxes , after all everyone still remembered Quentin as a ghost once Quentin returned to Collinwood post 1897!
But in my way of thinking , 1840 Angelique was native to that time period , and her timeline is a jumbeled mess that can't be neatly aligned into a single straight line.

[MagnusTrask]

We get once again into the area, where we have to think about what events could Barnabas and Julia possibly have lived through from 1967-70, in the new altered time-line they created by altering 1840.     Not getting back into the coffin twice is the biggest screw-up, but ECS knows BC and JH, so he was let out of the coffin in 1967.     An entirely different sequence of events must have happened at Collinwood from 1967-70.    And they must all know those events, since obviously Barnabas and Julia have been there... ECS knows them.... even though they have only ever known the original time-line.   Do their memories "self-correct"?

No Mrs. Rumson.