Discuss - Ep #0278

[Watching Project]

Robservations - #278

[Lydia]

I do not understand Elizabeth's problem with the Party.  But then, I never have understood any superstitious feelings.  And Willie - why did he think the Collinses wouldn't like the idea?  Clearly he has never read any of those old-fashioned whodunits where rich people go to costume balls and nobody knows who the murderer was because he was wearing a mask.  I fully sympathized, however, with his feeling that it was not a good idea to suggest to the Collins family that they could drop in at the Old House any time they wanted.  After all the near-misses with Maggie, Willie has learned something, but Barnabas apparently has not.

Isn't it convenient how all the right clothes are in the trunk!  Barnabas invited Vicky over to help him choose, but there wasn't any choosing to do - just a lot of ooh-ing and ah-ing.  I wish we could have gotten a preview of Naomi's dress; I can't remember what it looked like.  Oh, well, what I remember about Naomi's dresses was the bright colors, and they won't show up in black and white anyway.

Sarah's one line in the show is one of my favorites - "My blue dress!  I found my blue dress!"  It seems so natural - much more so than the usual Dark Shadows lines.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Willie has learned something, but Barnabas apparently has not.

When does Barnabas ever learn anything?   

[IluvBarnabas]

When does Barnabas ever learn anything?   

Well, he did learn to  [spoiler]stop throttling Julia after he became human again.[/spoiler]

That scene with Sarah finding her blue dress, so excited about it, was to me, very precious. It struck me she was so happy she had found something from her long-ago past, perhaps she had very special memories of it.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Well, he did learn to  [spoiler]stop throttling Julia after he became human again.[/spoiler]

Barnabas may have stopped physical intimidation, but his abuse of Julia never stopped - particularly whenever she dared to disagree with him - and completely heedless of the fact that she was often right. 

[IluvBarnabas]

I have to disagree. Disagreeing with someone (regardless of whether they're right or wrong) very strongly over a few issues isn't abuse. I won't deny that Barnabas could be very callous of Julia's feelings  at times(especially as far as his obsession with Josette, unrequited love for Vicki, and love-at-first-sight-for Roxanne were concerned) but I think he grew to be more fonder of Julia than he realized.

[spoiler]I think this is well demonstrated in the scene where in 1995 Julia begs him to go back to 1970 without her and Barnabas says "Never without you"....if that doesn't prove he hadn't grown to care for her at that point I don't know what does.[/spoiler]

Barnabas and Julia did have lots of strongly heated disagreements even after they became close friends and I do agree that she was more often the voice of reason than he was.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I never said that simply disagreeing with Julia was the abuse.    For example, Barn's abuse of not only Julia but Willie as well often took the form of belittling not only the disagreeing person's opinion, but the person him/herself. Barn would often resort to psychological abuse by insulting Julia's attitudes, beliefs and/or manner when it was impossible for him to actually competently argue against her point because her view was quite obviously the clear and rational one. In Willie's case Barn would most often resort to manipulation and intimidation to get his way. And his psychological abuse of those around him continued to be Barn favorite M.O. for getting his way whether he was a vampire or human. Completely disregarding others' warnings was often what got Barn into more trouble than he and/or they might have already been in.

Also, quite sadly, coming to care for someone and abusing them, whether it be physically or psychologically, aren't mutually exclusive.

[Nancy]

Was Barn as cutting towards Julia towards the middle and end of the show? I'm asking because I don't remember and I'm wondering now based on what is being discussed here about their relationship.

One might have to put up with the intimidation and verbal abuse if the abuser is a vampire and able to wreak havoc upon your physical being if you resist but once Barn is in human mode and nasty, well, you can't be walked over unless you give someone permission to do it.

Nancy

Well, he did learn to  [spoiler]stop throttling Julia after he became human again.[/spoiler]

Barnabas may have stopped physical intimidation, but his abuse of Julia never stopped - particularly whenever she dared to disagree with him - and completely heedless of the fact that she was often right. 

[Lydia]

I'm watching the Leviathan storyline these days (and loving it), and Barnabas was spectacularly cutting to Julia during that time.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

One of the most telling exchanges between Julia and Barnabas has always been:

JULIA:
You always win, don't you, Barnabas?

BARNABAS:
We can always checkmate each other, Julia.

JULIA:
No. No. You stop me, though, though I seldom stop you.

And so far as I can tell that situation remained throughout the series...

[Nancy]

She lets herself be stopped.

Nancy

[CT!_CTP/FITBs]

Be sure to check out these (hopefully  ) humorous topics related to this episode:

From "Caption This!":

From "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s)":

[Mysterious Benefactor]

She lets herself be stopped.

Oh, no one is arguing against that - it's often very true. But the fact that Julia often caves doesn't excuse the behavior Barnabas pulls out of his repertoire to get her to do so.    Barnabas and Julia have a very dysfunctional relationship. But then, what characters on DS don't?    And to try to deny/ignore that the dysfunction exists is to deny a major crux of the show.    But truthfully, that very dysfunction is what makes watching them all so fascinating.

[Nancy]

Yes, of course you are right in that explanation.  The quotes you posted were great and reminded me of that storyline which I had momentarily forgotten about.  As I recall, there was some delicious dialogue between Barn and Julia.  She gave it right back at him.

The dysfunction IS fun to watch and, of course, is the heart and soul of every soap opera.

nancy

She lets herself be stopped.

Oh, no one is arguing against that - it's often very true. But the fact that Julia often caves doesn't excuse the behavior Barnabas pulls out of his repertoire to get her to do so.    Barnabas and Julia have a very dysfunctional relationship. But then, what characters on DS don't?    And to try to deny/ignore that the dysfunction exists is to deny a major crux of the show.    But truthfully, that very dysfunction is what makes watching them all so fascinating.

[loril54]

I still need to watch 278 but I had to pipe in here. Yes their relationship was challanging to say the least.  But I do think it was changing it was never given the opportunity to play out after 1840. It would have been interesting to see where it went.

[spoiler]They saved each other, time and time again. How many Vampires did Barnabas kill to save Julia, 2, and one was Roxanne. How many people did Julia kill to save Barnabas. At least 2, Barnabas refused to Kill Julia and was made a Vampire again. Some people think that Barnabas went into Parralel Time to save Julia, and also hope he could be not a Vampire. End of Rant[/spoiler]

plus, we were rarely shown the quiet times at the Old House. That would have been boring to some.

What did Barnabas have as a role model Joshua, Abigail, he was more like his father than he wanted to be.