DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: TERRY308 on June 12, 2005, 11:17:44 PM

Title: Beth
Post by: TERRY308 on June 12, 2005, 11:17:44 PM
I got the new DVD the other day.  It's the one where Olivia Corey (Amanda Harris) is trying to get Quentin to love her...again.

I just can't forget about Beth.  She loved him.  She worshipped the ground he walked on, and I think he loved her too in a round about way.   [love3]

She loved him, she loved his children,and there for awhile he said they should run away together and she happily said "yes".

I just believe that even Quentin would think of her and love her.

I think that when he got married, probably Maggie, and if they had a little girl, he would call her Beth.

Beth deserved alot more that she was given.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Patti Feinberg on June 15, 2005, 02:22:29 AM
Quote
probably Maggie, and if they had a little girl, he would call her Beth.

Qu'elle cheezee!

But Terry308, I agree, in a round about way, Quentin loved Beth.

I just think that he was used to so much rancor & stress, that a 'simple' love wouldn't have held his interest...too 'easy' if you will.


Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on June 16, 2005, 04:46:08 AM
Out of all the romantic interests for Quentin, Beth is my favorite. They're one of my favorite couple on the show in any time period. Beth loved him, tried to help him. I think he loved her in his own way.

I hated what happened to her.

Title: Re: Beth
Post by: LdyAnne on June 16, 2005, 10:16:04 PM
Beth really did get the short end of the stick. But on the other hand she knew what a rouge he was.  Girls that go after Bad Boys should be wary.

[spoiler]
She saw what his taking off with Laura did to poor Jenny.
[/spoiler]

Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Patti Feinberg on June 17, 2005, 12:56:59 PM
I don't really think the understood the 'Jenny' aspect until she was already...um...knee deep with Quentin ;D

Patti
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: The Ghost of Sarah Collins on June 18, 2005, 03:56:22 AM
There were times I believe that Quentin gave affection to just Beth because he knew that having an affair with one of the hired help was something that would indeed hit Edward and Judith exactly where they live in the family pride... Beth a mere servant was clearly below their station and Quentin knew how much a pantry love affair would bring scandal to the mighty Collins'... Quentin was always one to shock and dismay the family.

Poor Beth paid the price for loving Quentin Collins.  [angl]
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Josette on June 18, 2005, 07:11:39 AM
Poor Beth paid the price for loving Quentin Collins.

That's true, but I think he genuinely cared for her.  He was always attracted to other women, and probably would never be faithful to anyone.  At one point I think he was engaged to 3 women at once:  Angelique (not by choice), Beth and Amanda.  Of course, Amanda then turned into his "true love" supposedly, but I think he did have real feelings for Beth.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: DSFan008 on June 18, 2005, 07:21:56 AM
I always thought Quinten loved Beth, i mean their ghosts where together in 1968. And the few scenes in 1897 showed true compassion and sencerity. plus when Beth dies Quinten blames himself and shows real remorse and despair over it.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on June 19, 2005, 08:35:28 PM
I always thought it would've made sense if, at the end of the 1897 storyline, that Quentin realized his love for Beth and planned to go away with her (or find her, as they could've said she left, like Amanda did). Quentin's love for Amanda comes out of nowhere, and isn't plausible, no matter how pretty she is (though personally, I think Beth is prettier). I could see the Quentin that we're first introduced to in 1897 falling for Amanda on sight and completely abandoning Beth, but not the Quentin in late 1897, after his character goes through so much. I didn't think that was realistic for the character.

And if Beth had to be put out of the picture, I would've rather seen Quentin with Angelique over Amanda.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Amy Jennings Fan on June 29, 2005, 10:21:42 PM
Beth's spirit was sort of like a banshee. In Irish folklore, a banshee is a spirit in the form of a woman whose crying or wailing predicted the death of a loved one. Whenever Chris got hurt, she would appear crying to Amy or Dr. Hofffman.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Pansity on September 12, 2005, 02:43:58 AM
I always thought it would've made sense if, at the end of the 1897 storyline, that Quentin realized his love for Beth and planned to go away with her (or find her, as they could've said she left, like Amanda did). Quentin's love for Amanda comes out of nowhere, and isn't plausible, no matter how pretty she is (though personally, I think Beth is prettier). I could see the Quentin that we're first introduced to in 1897 falling for Amanda on sight and completely abandoning Beth, but not the Quentin in late 1897, after his character goes through so much. I didn't think that was realistic for the character.

And if Beth had to be put out of the picture, I would've rather seen Quentin with Angelique over Amanda.

Hi  Another topic I wish I had been here for when it was going on.  GMTA -- I would have to agree wtih just about all your points.  Quentin at the end of the storyline had grown up a lot.  Thats another reason the out of nowhere Amanda scenario doesnt work DRAMATICALLY.  No REASON  -- except maybe rebound?  Beth's death is also badly DONE -- so many characters have to be suddenly out of character, stupid and or both for it to work.  I mean, even given the shock of getting his body back, WHO do you know who would walk TOWARDS someone standing on the edge of a cliff?  Though its an interesting point that he mourns her and is one of the few male characters you see crying for someone.  And that was such a no-no for Victorian men that it tells you he felt a great deal for Beth, even if he only realized it too late.

I find it amusing that they apparently alternated writers during that period -- one day he is mourning over Beth, next day he is desperate to get to his "once in a lifetime love", the third day we are back to he is distraught when he sees Beth's ghost.

As for who he should have ended up with. Angelique? Maybe, but then he still must have had some serious baggage about Angelique being the trigger for Beth to have tried to shoot him then end up working for Petofi, which ultimately led to her death.

This may sound seriously strange, but I could see him with Pansy -- Carl not withstanding.  He had a great relationship near the end with the Pansy/Charity combo -- at least once she stopped trying to poison Beth.  I am particularly thinking of that last night, with them in the drawing room, wishing they were ordinary people who could go off get married and have kids like ordinary people.  It was so sweet, sad and poignant.  And she cared a lot for him to risk Petofi, whom she was terrified of, to save Quentin.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Pansity on September 12, 2005, 03:01:10 AM
ACK! I KNEW I forgot something!  [8311]

I've been doing a lot of character dissection lately on Quentin, Beth and Jenny for one story, which when blocked, then turned into another one to explore the character aspects blocking me on story #1 (redo of the Orpheus storyline but in 1897 w/Beth).

Beth gets dissed a lot for being all crying and helpless, yet she starts out as very very strong, willing to stand right up to Quentin and take the gun away when he wants to kill Jenny.

She fits his description to Angelique of what he finds attractive in a woman:  ..."Beautiful, smart, dangerous" I believe the quote was (dont have the dvd handy to check).  Aside from bad writing, its hard to explain the turnaround.  When trying to figure something out for the story, a possible explanation occurred to me.

Let me throw this out for consideration and discussion:  Beth is the one knew about Jenny, knew about the babies.  She told no one the babies were at Mrs Fillmore's -- not even Quentin. Or Magda.  When Madga curses Q in the manner she does, she does so because she didn;t KNOW.

How much of Beth's later wussy, crying behaviour  -- even the suicide attempt -- comes from GUILT because she believes SHE is responsible for a lot of what happened.  Especially when the boy dies.....

Just sumitted for your consideration, as Rod Serling used to say.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on September 12, 2005, 04:14:56 AM
Pansity - I just adore the scene you mentioned with Quentin and Pansy at the end of the storyline. I found it to be one of the most genuine, heartfelt scenes on the show. It just clicked with me. Such a great moment between those characters.

As far as Quentin and Angelique....I just think that if Beth was out of the picture, the two of them would've been more fun than Quentin & Amanda. I don't know, I just think they had that something. It was also refreshing to see Angelique interested in someone other than Barnabas. I'm a Quentin/Beth fan first, but I think Quentin and Angelique together would've been interesting.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Misa on September 13, 2005, 12:04:26 AM
The Quentin and Angelique storyline was fraught with possibilities. It would have been interesting if the writers had actually had Angelique realize that she really didn't love Barnabas, had only wanted him because he was supposed to be Josette's, that she truly loved Quentin. Then show her actually be more self-sacrificing for him (let him go with Beth when she found out that he loved her). It was also weird that when they have Angie show up in the present she's back to loving Barnabas not Quentin. (As you can see I also don't like the Amanda/Quentin love story. It seems so "What?"')

I always thought that they never explained why Angelique turned to Quentin. She had been pursuing Barnabas, and then when he was about to be exposed she doesn't do anything to prevent it; she just decides to go after Quentin instead. I mean, what was the reason? I also couldn't figure out why Quentin didn't take her up on this, why was he not interested? He had been interested in her when she first showed up.

The other thing that I didn't like was the way Carl dies; Quentin has grown a lot as a person by this time, why would he just lock poor Carl up with Barnabas to be killed? (This murder really made my younger brother so angry at Barnabas and Quentin, Carl was his favorite character on the show; he even named his teddy bear after him). If they wanted to expose Barnabas, and needed to write Carl out, they could have done it in a better way. How did Barnabas know that Carl's death wouldn't change history? I'd have preferred that they have Trask kill Carl if they wanted to kill him, everyone hated Trask anyway, or have him leave town.

If they had Carl either leave town or be killed by Trask it would have been easier to understand Charity/Pansy liking Quentin. It is hard to have her love Quentin when she pretty much knows that he killed Carl.

This has gotten to be rather long and rambling, so I'll stop here.

Misa
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: PennyDreadful on September 13, 2005, 05:03:39 AM
she just decides to go after Quentin instead. I mean, what was the reason?

[spoiler]
 IIRC, she had made a deal with her Master in which she had to get a man to fall in love with her, or be returned to Hell.  Since Barnabas was a lost cause, she went after Quentin.
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Pansity on September 13, 2005, 05:49:24 AM
Pansity - I just adore the scene you mentioned with Quentin and Pansy at the end of the storyline. I found it to be one of the most genuine, heartfelt scenes on the show. It just clicked with me. Such a great moment between those characters.

As far as Quentin and Angelique....I just think that if Beth was out of the picture, the two of them would've been more fun than Quentin & Amanda. I don't know, I just think they had that something. It was also refreshing to see Angelique interested in someone other than Barnabas. I'm a Quentin/Beth fan first, but I think Quentin and Angelique together would've been interesting.

ARRGH  I had just typed a long lovely reply to this and to Misa;s post and silly me didnt log in for long enough andtimed out.  Lost the whole thing of course.  GRRRR/.

Anyway let me try reconstructing this.  The Quentin Pansy scene was wonderful --- no pretenses, no hiding behind the cynicism and sarcasm, just two very wounded people wishing they could live like everyone else.  I dont think he actually LOVES her at that point, except as a friend, but she loves him and is the kind of protector and support that Beth was.  Quentin reminds me a bit of Ashley Wilkes at times -- a not very strong man protected by the women in his life.  Course the rest of the time he;s Rhett Butler, but hey....

Angelique had a nice chemistry with Quentin= part of that was probably the fact that they were so alike.  Self absorbed, somewhat selfish and due to that they had both left a wide swath of destruction behind them.  They were both growing up a bit.  I have seen some really good fanfiction based on their pairing.

Sorry Misa, I will have to try and reconstruct my post to you tomorrow when the brain is not so fried.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Misa on September 13, 2005, 07:47:52 AM
Thanks for reminding me of that "have to get a man to fall in love with her, or go to hell, deal" PennyDreadful. I had forgotten about that. But I thought that it was pretty lame anyway. Why would the Devil want her to get a man to fall in love with her, and why would that have been that difficult for her? I remember that the Devil didn't like Nicolas falling in love, and Angelique was in love with Barnabas. But why turn to Quentin? He didn't seem to be in love with her either. Seems she should have found someone else Quentin was acting just like Barnabas towards her. Maybe she would have had better luck with Edward, or Trask even (YUCKY!). If it wasn't important that she love the guy, only that he love her, she should have been able to find someone.

Misa
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Midnite on September 13, 2005, 05:04:00 PM
ARRGH  I had just typed a long lovely reply to this and to Misa;s post and silly me didnt log in for long enough andtimed out.  Lost the whole thing of course.  GRRRR/.

Did you try using your back button?  Most browsers will return to the previous page where your reply is intact in the history stacks.  Though you can't post from there, you can copy your response (highlight it, Control+C or Edit/Copy) and paste it after logging in again.

To prevent session length timeouts in the future, click "login" where it says "Please login or register" at the top.  Then make sure the box is checked next to "Always stay logged in."

Hope that helped.  :)
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Ian on September 13, 2005, 05:39:20 PM
To prevent session length timeouts in the future, click "login" where it says "Please login or register" at the top.  Then make sure the box is checked next to "Always stay logged in."

Hope that helped.  :)

However, you will be logged out when you clear your Temporary Internet Files. ;)
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 13, 2005, 10:59:17 PM
However, you will be logged out when you clear your Temporary Internet Files.

Actually, to clarify just a bit, simply using the "Delete Files..." (in IE) or "Clear Cache" (or something similar in other browsers) button to clear out the temporary files stored in a browser's cache won't cause any login or timeout problems. Only clearing cookies with the "Delete Cookies..." (in IE) or "Clean Cookies" (or something similar in other browsers) button will require a member to log back in because all their login info is stored in the forum's cookie.  ;)
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Pansity on September 14, 2005, 02:09:31 AM
Did you try using your back button?  Most browsers will return to the previous page where your reply is intact in the history stacks.  Though you can't post from there, you can copy your response (highlight it, Control+C or Edit/Copy) and paste it after logging in again.

To prevent session length timeouts in the future, click "login" where it says "Please login or register" at the top.  Then make sure the box is checked next to "Always stay logged in."

Hope that helped.  :)

Thanks for the suggestions, Midnite.  I did try that stuff, only to find on backspace IE had the page expired mssg.  My own fault as I said.  I ws multitasking, and prob took too long to draft the mssg as well as being absent minded and not logging in "forever" as I usually do.  Hit the key too fast and went in on the default.  Didnt think.  "Brain and brain what is brain".

I just have to remember to be more careful in the future.  Thanks again everyone: MB, Midnite and Ian who have been giving helpful suggestions.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Pansity on September 14, 2005, 02:25:47 AM
... But why turn to Quentin? He didn't seem to be in love with her either. Seems she should have found someone else Quentin was acting just like Barnabas towards her....

hmm.  My take on this for what it's worth, is that he was there, he was cute and he was quite eager for a little slap and tickle, at least when he first approached her. NOT any kind of committment.  Her big mistake, I think was to try and make it an ultimatum.  It put his back up, and also at that point in the storyline, he had genuine feelings for Beth.  What some take as him NOT being too attached to Beth, that is him chasing her away. I interpret as his concern for her because he DOES now care.  He keeps trying to chase her away, tells her she has no future with him.  Some of the ugly things he says, like bluntly telling her -- I forget the line -- will look good on her tombstone, really seem ways to get her away from him before he injures or kills her.

Back to Angelique.  He genuinely cares for Beth, wouldnt mind a one night stand with Angie, but marrying her when he wants to marry beth was NOT in his plans.  I think its too much like what they infer happened with him and Laura.  IF we can judge by the way DIRK was when he was under Laura;'s thrall, Quentin had precious little choice in the matter once it passed a certain point  - no matter HOW willing he may have been to step out on Jenny with Laura or anything else in a skirt.  And wouldn't he feel used after the spell wore off, which would explain his abrasiveness and sudden hate for the Laura that he ran off with and jeopardized his whole future -- and inheritance -- for.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: Pansity on September 14, 2005, 02:46:57 AM
...The other thing that I didn't like was the way Carl dies; Quentin has grown a lot as a person by this time, why would he just lock poor Carl up with Barnabas to be killed? (This murder really made my younger brother so angry at Barnabas and Quentin, Carl was his favorite character on the show; he even named his teddy bear after him). If they wanted to expose Barnabas, and needed to write Carl out, they could have done it in a better way. How did Barnabas know that Carl's death wouldn't change history? I'd have preferred that they have Trask kill Carl if they wanted to kill him, everyone hated Trask anyway, or have him leave town.....

Going to try and reconstruct the part of last night's post about Quentin and Carl.  That scene in the mausoleum is, weirdly enough a favorite of mine.  Its what pushed me from timeshifting every day because I had accidentally caught DS from the beginning, to keeping every tape instead of taping over them.  The acting in that scene grabbed me and shook me.  The actors just flew when they did it.  Karlen's Carl was horrified and terrified and could NOT understand what was wrong with Quentin.  Quentin on the other hand was like a man living his worst nightmare. Since he was still quite a coward, not to mention self serving at that stage of the storyline, he was terrified.  YOu can see how he is torn  -- its like he is watching himself from the outside for part of it, and that scene where he is against the wall listening to Carl's screams. Marvelous acting on Selby's part.  You can see the reluctance and self loathing, but Quentin is still to much of a coward NOT to do it.

Interstingly, contrast this with later in the storyline, after he has matured and gained more empathy.  Petofi forces him to go to stake Barnabas.  He has the portrait, points out that he (Petofi) can detroy it or use it to make him transform at any time or place.  Forget if he makes other threats or what they are.  He goes to stake Barn as reluctantly as he locks Carl in.  But that time, he has more MORAL courage.  In the final analysis he CANNOT do it, no matter what the consequences to himself.  And if you think about it, how much of that decision was made by the guilt over Carl's death?

As to the plausibility of him betraying his own brother to save his own skin?  Its the last lifeboat scenario.  People can  -- and do -- do pretty ugly things in the name of survival.  Ask any concentration camp survivor.  Not to mention the cases of women with small babies when in hiding from some vicious enemy, nave been documented to smother their own children rather than risk the survival of the group.
Title: Re: Beth
Post by: PennyDreadful on September 14, 2005, 05:02:45 AM

 As fond as I truly was of the Carl character, part of me kind of liked that Barnabas did that.  It showed that Barnabas was still quite dangerous and unpredictable.  Barnabas is sometimes perceived as a "hero" post-1967, when in fact, he was far from being one.  Quentin too.  Never trust a Collins.