DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '02 II => Topic started by: Midnite on December 01, 2002, 12:25:13 AM
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While we realize the Festival dates were changed to accommodate guests, we are expressing our dislike for the selection of the Labor Day weekend, and in some cases with the choice of Brooklyn as the new location.
Please post below if you're interested in signing this petition, and if you'd like to include the location issue please say so. The minimum personal info needed is your DS Forums username, and it's completely up to you if you'd like to provide more, but only if you're comfortable doing so-- remember that this posting board is NOT private. Email addresses will be included in the final petition only if you've allowed it be visible on the forums or if you say differently. You're encouraged to express your opinion in your message-- in other words, why are the dates a hardship for you? (i.e. are you a student or parent of a student?, do you have regular family plans for that weekend?, are you concerned about traveling on those dates?, etc.), or why do you dislike the new location or prefer that the Fest be held in another part of NYC?-- just please be realistic, and above all be polite.
To explain, this petition was begun because several members have expressed that the new dates present a hardship, and in some cases that they'll be unable to attend because of this, but unfortunately the person(s) that made these decisions are not reading our boards and therefore our opinions were not heard by them. If you don't feel comfortable publicly "signing" this petition, you're welcome to do so in an IM (click on the page & envelope icon in this message) or email your opinion to <Midnite@dsboards.com>. Also, please feel free to share this post [only] with your friends or on other posting boards and e-lists. Names will be collected and sent via certified mail to the Festival address as well as Jim Pierson at DC Productions,*** and if you'd like the additional names submitted at the same time please feel free to send them to the above email address, though I'm not in any way trying to discourage anyone else from doing the same on their own and in their own way. But even if they differ, I do request that you only sign one petition.
If enough fans voice their discontent with the new dates and/or location, at the very least the decision makers will be made aware of how we feel about these matters.
Thanks!
***To be sure that was clear, adding your comments under this message gives your permission for it to be copied for the sole purpose of delivering it along with the others to Jim Pierson and the Festival address. No one else may copy or quote them for any reason as ONLY this post that begins the topic may be copied and shared.
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Thank you, Midnite! I was hoping that somebody might start such a petition.
Personally, I don't have any real complaint about the location even though I know that it's inconvenient for people like my family members who wanted to visit the sites of the city. My main concern is about the new dates.
At first, it was just a matter of waiting an extra two weeks to attend the Fest, but when I realized that it was a holiday weekend and that traffic, travel costs, etc. would be higher, I became even more discouraged. My family refuses to travel over the holiday weekend, and I don't know if I could handle all of the costs alone. Also, school begins immediately after Labor Day, which presents another inconvenience. Many other people that I know will not be going now because they don't wish to travel on a holiday or because of work and/or school. Not only am I disappointed about missing my friends' company, but it seems to me that the committee's efforts to reschedule the event will suffer because of a lower attendance.
I was really looking forward to this Festival and I'm still hopeful that either the original dates could be made available again, or that a different weekend during the summer could be chosen altogether.
ProfStokes
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Count me in Fran i just think that the dates are going to be hell driving in from Boston on a holiday W/E
rather be closer to the fest too!
jennifer
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Hi, Fran i really don't have a problem with the dates
because i have that Monday off from work as a
company paid holiday. But can understand how
some others feel though. But if the dates do
change it's fine with me i'll do anything so people
can enjoy it as well and attend.
Thanks for speaking out. Love Anne
[wavey] [wavey] [beer] [beer]
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I'd like to add my comments to those of the previous posters.
I live in the New York Metropolitan area. Traveling in and around the city is difficult under the best of circumstances. Unfortunately, there aren't many weekends in the year that would be MORE difficult than Labor Day. While I understand the attraction of a 3-day weekend, the additional day is hardly enough to make up for the added time and money it will cost most travelers to get to the fest.
That weekend is also inconvenient to anyone who has a child going off to college, or a youngster getting ready for the begining of the school year. And those who CAN get away, usually do so to visit with family and neighbors.
This was to have been my first Festival and I was looking forward to it with great anticipation. Now, because the dates conflict with prior commitments, I will not be able to attend. Traveling to and from Brooklyn would not have posed a problem for me personally because I live locally, but that only applies to those of us who do. I would imagine that those who intended to fly would be only slightly less inconvenienced than those who intended to drive, who would certainly bear the greatest hardship of all.
I realize that changing the plans of a Festival of this size is tantamount to changing the course of an Aircraft Carrier......a thing not easily accomplished.....but if it is at all possible to move the dates to an earlier weekend in the summer, I'm sure a great many unhappy and disappointed fans would be both relieved and grateful.
Raineypark
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Well, the new dates don't cause me too much trouble because I don't have kids to worry about and it is far enough away to rearrange my vacation dates at work. However, it is really going to stink if I don't have anyone there to visit and have fun with.
I plan on going at this point and my only concern would be if they wait 2 or 3 months and then change the dates again. At that point I may not have the flexibility of changing my vacation dates again.
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The location is okay, I guess, although if the Fest is held in NYC, I really rather for it to be in Manhattan--especially if it has to be held on Labor Day Weekend. But the date is really what bothers me, since to seems to be a hardship for so many others.
This would be my first DS convention and would personally be disappointed if the Labor Day date meant that it would be a poorly attended event. What would be the point? And where would be the fun without a bunch of people there?
I'm very willing to sign a petition. Midnite, feel free to include my email address on any such document. If you need more personal information for whatever reason, I will be happy to supply that information through an IM. :)
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The location is right over the bridge and one subway stop from Manhattan and it is a safe neighborhood. I am a native New Yorker, so trust me in what I am saying!!
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The location is right over the bridge and one subway stop from Manhattan and it is a safe neighborhood. I am a native New Yorker, so trust me in what I am saying!!
i trust you Joey thanks for that info! the location is okay it is the dates that might be hard!Will be my first fest and want to meet so many of the posters here!it would be sad if so many can't attend!
jennifer(after a power nap and on call now!)
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Neither location nor date will be a problem for me. I am and have always been flexible when there is something I really am interested in. However, I appreciate the fact that others may find these dates unacceptable. After all, the fans are what make these fests successful. I will hope a date can be reached that is suitable for most.
Misty
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The fest location is a bit disappointing, but that in and of itself would not prevent me from attending. I attended my first fest two years ago at the Marriott WTC, and was looking forward to the fest returning to New York. However, the dates recently selected (Labor Day Weekend) make it impossible for me to go. I understand many people don't have commitments/children to ready for school that weekend, but I am not among them. Perhaps the date change was the Marriott's idea and not the organizers'...but I would be appreciative if a date change was considered.
MrsJ.
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I also understand many reasons why Labor Day weekend is not good for many people but the attendance at the festival will not suffer because of it. It did not suffer in 1987 - I was there - and the fact it was Labor Day certainly did not keep the attendance down that I recall. In fact, several conventions don't even give their fans/attendees different dates each year - they are scheduled every year on Labor Day weekend. These are enormous fan/media conventions. One of them is World Con (The World Science Fiction Convention) and Dragon Con. My understanding is that these conventions are well attended each year in spite of being scheduled on Labor Day weekend. It must be so since they are repeatedly scheduled for that holiday weekend. If people did not attend, I doubt the schedule would remain the same.
Nancy
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Well, I'm signing because of the new dates. I thought choosing Brooklyn was amusing, but the switch to Labor Day weekend was the "critical mass" as far as I'm concerned. Public schools in my area begin a week before Labor Day, and private schools the day after, and I have a child in each. My summer vacation is over by the time Labor Day weekend rolls around.
Because of the scheduling change, I'll be missing my first Fest since 1997, and it's doubly disappointing since this was to have been my first visit to NYC since the 9/11 tragedy. I understand and appreciate that the Festival is willing to accommodate DS guests, but I feel that choosing Labor Day weekend, a time in which airports are routinely congested, travel costs are high, and school is already in session, for an event that was shaping up to be heavily attended is asking too much of the fans.
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Having the Festival over Labor Day weekend is going to make attending a major inconvenience, if not an impossibility, for me because of my dual role as a graduate student and an associate instructor.
Associate Instructor contracts at my university begin on August 15 every year, and we are expected to be in town and available for meetings with faculty members, administrators, etc., and there generally is some last minute wrangling with the bookstore and the reserve desk at the library over texts. The semester begins on Labor Day itself (because this particular university does not observe that holiday).
My friends and I typically arrived in New York on Tuesday or Wednesday and spent a few days in Midtown Manhattan taking in the sights before heading down to Lower Manhattan for the Fest at the WTC Marriott. When the initial dates were announced, we were planning a similar sort of trip, spending the initial days in Midtown and Lower Manhattan before heading to Brooklyn.
Such an extended vacation in New York, which I was truly looking forward to following 9/11, will no longer be possible for me as I cannot take what would be almost a week away from the university once my contract officially starts.
A quick Friday morning through Sunday morning trip would be an option, except that airfare for weekend departure and arrival dates is bound to be astronomical, especially on a holiday weekend, and it seems ridiculous to me to sink such a large sum of money into a quick trip to see the interior of the Brooklyn Marriott when what I had been looking forward to was visiting Lower Manhattan.
Frankly, I think the Fest should've been scheduled in Lower Manhattan again simply because I despise the notion of being driven out of an area by terrorists and contributing to the economic damage they have caused by not doing business with the hotels, restaurants, and merchants in the area. This was part of why it was so important to me this time around to have some time in the city prior to the Festival. I was adamant about spending some money in a store in that area, regardless of what hotel was chosen for the Festival.
However, I really don't care where in the Greater New York area the Fest is held. It could be in Newark for all I care. The major problem is Labor Day weekend. I could make it on any other weekend during the summer, but not that weekend, which really isn't the summer for most people who go to or work at a school anyway.
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Please add my name to those on the petition. It's out of the question for me to go on Labor Day weekend. Since there are friends I basically only see at the Dark Shadows Festival, and I really can't afford to fly out to the ones on the West Coast, I am majorly bummed that I am going to have to miss this year's affair.
Steve Shutt
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Toss me on there. Labor day weekend is going to be a major hassle. While the getting there would not be impossible for me, as it would for some who have to fly, that weekend is close to impossible for me to take off. Management, hospitality, Southern Maine. Does not add up to ideal leave taking.
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Put my name on the list. Labor Day weekend is a no for me.
Birdie
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Being the curious person that I am, I checked airfare for the festival. Arriving on Thursday and leaving On Tuesday. The fare Delta has at this time is actually $75 cheaper than what I paid to fly to the last festival in NYC and $45 less than what I paid to fly to Tarrytown in October. So if airfare is your only concern than don't despair too much, maybe some of you can find similiar fares from your city. The fare listed from my city is $211.
Having those extra days will give me time to visit the city as long as I get the courage up to venture out on my own. I am not sure I would pay it to come in Friday and leave on Monday though.
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I am not sure I would pay it to come in Friday and leave on Monday though.
Coming in on Friday and leaving on Sunday, which is what I would have to do, scores me a whopping $410 RT fare, hence my disgust with the situation.
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Midnite, please add my name to the petition and feel free to use my name, email address, etc... I have no idea who or what they are trying to accomodate with the changed dates but I feel it is going to make a major difference in attendance! It is definitely going to inconvenience many parents of school children and people who are in school as well. Also, I don't care for the new location either. I would rather pay the extra cost to be in Manhattan. I think the Marriott Financial Center would have been a much better location.
John in SC
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Now I have never attended a DS Fest but I have often wondered something. Most conventions and Fests try to lock down a specific time each year to have the event, such as the last weekend of certain month. That way everyone involved knows that the event will happen every year at the same time. The dates may be different depending on the calendar but it on the same weekend each year. The DS fest doesn't seem to do this. What I have wondered is why is it in June some years and August others? Why don't they lock in on specific time. Then guests would know that it was going to happen at a certain time, fans would know the same each year. It would make planning for them and even hotel and other plans easier to do and they could be done well in advance to avoid something like this years Labor Day fest.
On the topic of a fest on Labor Day, bad idea for many reasons. The traffic and travel situation nationwide. As I read in other messages, school starting either right before or right after that date. Add to it that there are alot of other things people do that weekend. It is the unofficial last weekend of summer and people usually make the most of it. I have a feeling this fest will find itself with less than normal attendence due to the time picked. It is usually not a good time to hold events like this on holiday weekends because it conflicts with people's personal plans.
Richard Holt
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Hey everybody!
To be honest, I don't have a problem with the location or the dates for the 2003 Fest. As I recall, Manhattan tends to empty out on summer weekends. Since Labor Day weekend is viewed as "Last Chance To Hit The Beach" weekend, it could mean fewer crowds in the museums and other cultural attractions.
Of course, if it were up to me, I would have the Fest during an October weekend, just like the good old days of the Hilton Gateway in Newark.
Also, it might be fun to choose different locations for the Fest. Washington D.C., with its many historical and cultural attractions, would make an excellent location. Another interesting choice would be Salem, Massachusetts!
Regards,
John
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I was wondering approximately how many people attend the fests each year? Is it over 1000?
Maybe it doesn't matter since it looks like a lot of people won't be going, but the Brooklyn Marriott only has 376 rooms (!). The WTC Marriott had over 800 rooms. Just thought I'd mention it 'cause if you are planning to go, I'd reserve a room now. LOL
I really don't understand all this since I'm not aware of all the factors involved in planning these events, but I would think if you're going to schedule a Fest on Labor Day weekend (oy vey), you'd at least try to make it as painless as possible financially and convenience/travel-wise.
Example: The Newark Airport Marriott has nearly 600 rooms, is right on the airport premises for people flying in, and is $50 cheaper per night than the Brooklyn Marriott. For those who just HAVE to get into Manhattan and hang out, see a show, whatever, I don't think the train ride is very long. Don't remember -- maybe 15 or 20 minutes? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, maybe it's just me, but I'd steer clear of the Brooklyn/Long Island/Kennedy Airport area on a Labor Day weekend. You're already taking your life into your hands on the Belt Parkway on a regular weekday!
;D
-CLC
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I was wondering approximately how many people attend the fests each year? Is it over 1000?
Maybe it doesn't matter since it looks like a lot of people won't be going, but the Brooklyn Marriott only has 376 rooms (!). The WTC Marriott had over 800 rooms. Just thought I'd mention it 'cause if you are planning to go, I'd reserve a room now. LOL
The festival attendance has been in the thousands at times and since so many people live in the NYC area just come for the days during that weekend (they don't pay money to stay overnight) the problem has sometimes been curtailing the amount of people who attend on any given day. The last New York Festival was "sold out" on Saturday because the hotel told them they could only have so many people in the ballrooms, etc. I saw that the Brooklyn Marriott has a parking capacity for 1,100 vehicles and there are eating facilities in and around the hotel. The Newark Marriott, IIRC, doesn't have very much in the way of eating facilities (or at least it didn't used to). When the festival was in Newark, people complained about that and rightfully so. Not everyone can afford room service for each meal.;)
I really don't understand all this since I'm not aware of all the factors involved in planning these events, but I would think if you're going to schedule a Fest on Labor Day weekend (oy vey), you'd at least try to make it as painless as possible financially and convenience/travel-wise.
I've flown on Labor Day weekend many times (and flown many times since 9/11) and I don't see the big travel headaches people are talking about. For one thing, especially since 9/11, more people tend to drive. Now, I can see the driving issue but during the summer, you have beach traffic anyway. If you come into New York on Friday night, it is without fail a nightmare to drive in. During the summer, people are leaving to go to the Hamptons, the Jersey shore,etc. I should also note that city dwellers leave the city on the big holiday weekends and others come in to visit. Several fan conventions that have way many more attendees than the festival deliberately schedule their events every Labor Day weekend so obviously there are a great many people who do not find the holiday weekend a great problem. However, I would rather the festival be during the summer and not on that particular holiday weekend.
I must say that for all the discussion there has been here in the past about what happened at the World Trade Center on 9/11, there has not been a whole lot of understanding about what the DS Festival had to go through to relocate the event in the first place. Let's forget about the date issue for a moment. I would like to see how well others who complain about the location of Brooklyn would have done in the festival's shoes. All those who scheduled events in the Vista for 2003 had to go elsewhere in New York and reschedule their events. Bear in mind that hotel space in New York City generally books up a year in advance. That means there were a significant amount of other people out there looking for hotel space and facilities besides the Dark Shadows Festivals. There is only so much space in the New York City area, as vast as it might seem to be. The impression I get is that fans seem to think all the hotels in NYC area were jumping up and down saying "Pick me! Pick me!" and for some crazy reason the festival decided to pick a location that was inconvenient just to annoy and upset people.
I do agree with Connie about steering clear of the Belt Parkway on Labor Day weekend or any day during the summer months for that matter. There are other ways to get to the Brooklyn Marriott without having to take the Belt Parkway. If you come into New York City through one of the tunnels or the George Washington Bridge, you can loop around and take the Brooklyn Bridge across. You'll avoid a lot of traffic that way.
Nancy
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Now I have never attended a DS Fest but I have often wondered something. Most conventions and Fests try to lock down a specific time each year to have the event, such as the last weekend of certain month. That way everyone involved knows that the event will happen every year at the same time. The dates may be different depending on the calendar but it on the same weekend each year. The DS fest doesn't seem to do this. What I have wondered is why is it in June some years and August others? Why don't they lock in on specific time. Then guests would know that it was going to happen at a certain time, fans would know the same each year. It would make planning for them and even hotel and other plans easier to do and they could be done well in advance to avoid something like this years Labor Day fest.
Richard, I never heard of school (except for college) starting before Labor Day until this situation arose so that was a surprise to me. The schools in the areas I've lived start after Labor Day. But I've since learned that is indeed not the case everywhere.
As for travelling on Labor Day, again, I think the driving aspect is the issue. The scheduled trip on Labor Day is something I would not choose to drive because of traffic. I do not think the attendance for the festival will be affected by the choice of dates though. If the festival is affected at all by people electing to not fly in, it will be because there are people who are still afraid to fly because of 9/11 and of all places might not want to choose to fly into NYC.
But, time will tell how well the fest does. I am anxious to see the guest line-up to see if there is indeed a surprise, first time guest. That might explain the change of dates if it's a biggie.;)
Nancy
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It gets confusing when you quote a post and write up a reply to it, but by the time you're ready to post it you find that the original post that you've quoted has undergone a drastic change. So as a reminder, there's a Preview feature available to all members that allows a message to be edited before anyone else can read or quote it.
Anyway, I wanted to make the point that calling this is a petition has perhaps been unsettling to some. A petition usually comes with a request or demand, but as anyone can see by the wording, this one does neither. It's up the signers, if you will, to state what, if anything, they'd like to see happen, but I haven't noticed a single radical or controversial suggestion either here or in my mailbox. This petition is merely a vehicle for fans to be heard by the PTB regarding certain decisions made about a fan event, and what they get in return for their effort is a guarantee that their comments will reach Jim Pierson as well as the Festival address. Names and comments continue to be collected and will be mailed as planned.
The impression I get is that fans seem to think all the hotels in NYC area were jumping up and down saying "Pick me! Pick me!" and for some crazy reason the festival decided to pick a location that was inconvenient just to annoy and upset people.
Nancy, I hope I never gave that impression.
The Festival email address was posted here recently, and I promised Pansy Faye that I would repeat it: <pansyfaye@darkshadowsfestival.com>. She noted the petition on another posting board and asked me to pass along that she is willing to listen to any and all comments emailed to her regarding the Festivals.
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please include me in the petition. i was originally looking forward to attending next year's fest in new york and spending some time touring the city. however, my husband is a teacher and is unavailable to attend this year or any other year over the labor day week-end. my step-son is also in college and from time to time we move him to santa cruz over this holiday week-end.
also, handling the more extensive crowds at LAX is not my cup of tea. i realize that some have not had travel delays but that was my experience.
since i've never been to brooklyn or anywhere else in the city, this is not a factor for me. wherever my dark shadows friends are that is where i want to be.
i wish there was a way to change the dates but that may not come to pass. in this case, i have to say i can't come. this would have been my second fest and i was really looking forward to it.
it also upsets me to some degree that the festival committee is not open to the fans' needs. while i realize the stars are important, it is a combination of both stars and fans that make a fest. we can't have a fest without both elements being present.
i just hope that next time, the fans will have a voice in the planning of the events and that perhaps a poll can be taken on the festival web page as to best places and times to come. it would also be nice to see some variation in the fest program instead of the same thing year after year.
i'll look forward to meeting everyone in california 2004.
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It gets confusing when you quote a post and write up a reply to it, but by the time you're ready to post it you find that the original post that you've quoted has undergone a drastic change. So as a reminder, there's a Preview feature available to all members that allows a message to be edited before anyone else can read or quote it.
Heh heh, she means me folks.[lghy]
Anyway, Midnite - I think the petition is terrific and for the reasons you cited. You never know what the results might be, and at least something constructive was done to voice the upset. I'm a proactive person, in case you didn't know that about me, and if I don't like something, I say something even if I don't think it will change anything. Sometimes I get surprised and it does.
Nancy, I hope I never gave that impression.
Well, I'd tell you if you did but the impression is an overall tone rather than any one thing a single person said.
I think my irritation over criticism of the festival's "choice" of Brooklyn is borne out of the fact that I have planned or helped coordinate events in New York City that involved the use of hotel facilities and booking blocks of rooms for expected attendees. Even on a good day, it can be hard to find a hotel that has the right facilities and room rates are something attendees can or will pay.
Imagine what it was like to have the hotel you booked for an event be destroyed in a terrorist attack forcing you to relocate. And not just you but everyone else who also had booked facilities and rooms in that same hotel is now competing with you to find a suitable hotel as close to your original criteria as possible. Not only that, but I know for a fact many people who had booked events in neighboring hotels in lower Manhattan elected to cancel out and move uptown because they did not know how long it would take to clean up the WTC rubble. They also did not want to play wait and see since hotel facilities book up quickly as it is. Also, some of the hesitation to attend functions in lower Manhattan last year had less to do with the fear of terrorist attacks than the horrible, lingering odor that lasted for months.
So this is what the festival had to contend with in relocating the convention. I don't believe they deserve ridicule for the relocation issue given the circumstances. The lack of understanding in this regard truly surprises me. I doubt the goal was to find a hotel for the convention that would irritate the crap out of the fans. The irony is that the festival "Committee" and chairman have to go through the same thing as everyone else to get to the festival that weekend. And one of them is a schoolteacher!
Nancy
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Richard, I never heard of school (except for college) starting before Labor Day until this situation arose so that was a surprise to me. The schools in the areas I've lived start after Labor Day.
Well, not to nit pick...but the schools in our area always start at the end of August. It wasn't that way when I was in school, but it seems to be the trend now. Many schools in the south start even earlier, usually mid August.
I guess it is just surprising to me that the fest would be scheduled on such a hectic weekend...I imagine many of the cast might have other commitments as well. Perhaps the the organizers weren't given much choice, but it would seem that some other arrangement could be worked out. Perhaps it's time to find another locale...NY is great, I'll admit, but it's not the only place on the east coast.
MrsJ.
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I guess it is just surprising to me that the fest would be scheduled on such a hectic weekend...I imagine many of the cast might have other commitments as well. Perhaps the the organizers weren't given much choice, but it would seem that some other arrangement could be worked out. Perhaps it's time to find another locale...NY is great, I'll admit, but it's not the only place on the east coast.
That's certainly true. The reason the fests have been either in the LA area or NY is because the actors live on either (or reside on) both coasts. THe locale could certainly be somewhere else and the actors would all have to be flown in but the answer to that is to just raise the admission price to cover those costs. No reason that could not work.
Nancy
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That's certainly true. The reason the fests have been either in the LA area or NY is because the actors live on either (or reside on) both coasts. THe locale could certainly be somewhere else and the actors would all have to be flown in but the answer to that is to just raise the admission price to cover those costs. No reason that could not work.
Nancy
Example being the 1998 Las Vegas Festival. There was a very good turnout of the DS Celebs.
While I totally LOVE NYC, if it meant more people being able to attend, I would support relocating the Festival to a different State/City so that we could find a date that would accommodate the majority.:) Bob
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NY is great, I'll admit, but it's not the only place on the east coast.
MrsJ.
Heavens, no! Why no one seems to pick Boston for fancons is a complete mystery to me, although I have a hunch that it may have something to do with cost, especially as it relates to hotels. But how can Boston be more expensive than New York? As for facilities, there is the Hines Convention Center, Bayside Expo Center, and Fleet Center (which is a mess, but probably doable). As for things to see and places to go, there is plenty here for everyone. There must be some weird reason why Boston is never chosen. Anyone here know why? Might it be that Boston hotels cannot accommodate conventions as well as LA or New York? [hdscrt]
Salem would also be an interesting place, but I doubt it has the facilities for a fancon. And what about Providence?
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Heavens, no! Why no one seems to pick Boston for fancons is a complete mystery to me, although I have a hunch that it may have something to do with cost, especially as it relates to hotels. But how can Boston be more expensive than New York? As for facilities, there is the Hines Convention Center, Bayside Expo Center, and Fleet Center (which is a mess, but probably doable). As for things to see and places to go, there is plenty here for everyone. There must be some weird reason why Boston is never chosen. Anyone here know why? Might it be that Boston hotels cannot accommodate conventions as well as LA or New York? [hdscrt]
Salem would also be an interesting place, but I doubt it has the facilities for a fancon. And what about Providence?
Believe it or not, I think it's harder to get a room in Boston. The occupancy rate there is very high and finding available rooms for a convention is the key complaint I've ever from others. By that I mean rooms for attendees to stay in. I was there not that long ago and the hotel tax is only slightly less than New York hotel taxes. I did not find Boston to be particularly inexpensive as compared to New York. They tax car rentals and spread other little taxes on entertainment items.
I visited Salem one Halloween and it was great.:) Now there is a place to have a festival!!
Nancy
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There must be some weird reason why Boston is never chosen. Anyone here know why? Might it be that Boston hotels cannot accommodate conventions as well as LA or New York?
Well, we're getting the Democratic National Convention during the next presidential election, so I think it's doable. We've gotten lots of other big time conventions too. I think that Hines would be great for a fest! Hotels are expensive, but like you say, not quite as bad as NYC. I've always heard that NY and LA are chosen for the convenience of the DS personalities. Don't know if that's truly the case, though.
Bernie
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Hi Bernie!
The choice of the NYC/LA convention site might be convenient for the DS actors who attend but it's also an economic decision. The actors live in either NYC or LA, and when the fest is held on the one coast, the festival has to fly in only the actors on the other coast. If the festival were elsewhere, all of the actors attending the fest would have to be flown in.
However, I suppose the festival could be elsewhere and the admission could just be raised to cover the increased cost of having to fly all the actors in.
Nancy
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Thanks for starting this Midnite and I hope it's not too late to add my 2 cents worth.
As for me, I would be much happier if the festival were to occur sometime earlier during the summer. After attending the festival for the first time in NYC in 2001, I decided that the next time I was definitely going to plan to stay a few days before and/or after in order to see more of the city. Unfortunately, Labor Day weekend would not be a good time for me to try and get more time off to do this. I work for a school corporation and, since school is just getting started at that time of year, it is difficult to get additional vacation time off around this holiday.
As to the location - I've never been to Brooklyn and have nothing against it. Still, after attending the 2001 fest, I was very much looking forward to returning to Manhattan and was really hoping the 2003 festival would be at the Marriott Marquis.
Would love to see a change of plans if possible - please add my name and info to the list.
CastleBee
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Well, we're getting the Democratic National Convention during the next presidential election, so I think it's doable.
Bernie
Yes, that is one very big reason I'm surprised about this. From the comments posted here, I now have a feeling that the problem relates more the hotel accomodations for guests than convention venues.
And as for the star living in either LA or NY, Boston is hardly THAT far away from New York, nor that expensive to travel to from NY! Wonder which of the stars live in NY? Some of you would probably know this by heart. :)
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Hi Bernie!
However, I suppose the festival could be elsewhere and the admission could just be raised to cover the increased cost of having to fly all the actors in.
Nancy
Hello Nancy!!
Tom Menino, the Mayor of Boston has just announced his plan to tack on a sports and entertainment fee for tickets to certain events. Not that it would affect the cost very much, but it does show why many of us call our state **Taxachusetts**, LOL!!
Bernie
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I was just ready to make reservations for Brooklyn when I received an email from a friend who is attending the fest with me to not do it do to this attempt to get the dates changed. Frankly, I hadn't even thought about the problem of school commitments for others as my children are adults and on their own now. I do sympathize with the parents.
I was disappointed that the hotel wouldn't be in Manhattan but Brooklyn is doable for me in any event.
I'm considering traveling by Amtrak to NYC (I live in Chicago) and have begun to research dates and times and find that a regular Coach fare is $178 round trip to NYC. However, if I want to upgrade my accommodations to Roomette, the cost would be about $400 additional!
I can't honestly say that the change in dates really affects me other than I'd like to try and reserve my room as soon as possible especially since I just learned from these posts that the there is a shortage of rooms in Brooklyn.
Perhaps Midnite and give an idea of when a final decision for dates might be so that we can reserve our rooms???
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Hello Nancy!!
Tom Menino, the Mayor of Boston has just announced his plan to tack on a sports and entertainment fee for tickets to certain events. Not that it would affect the cost very much, but it does show why many of us call our state **Taxachusetts**, LOL!!
Bernie
so far Bernie this is just a plan isn't it???
i have no problem going to NY but the W/E may be bad for me!
nancy who plans the fests and where they are going to be held?
jennifer
How about Maine LOL!
as for the DNC Yippee! can't wait!
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Hey gang,
Another possibility for a Fest location is Philadelphia. It's close enough to NYC for the East Coast stars to take the train, and Philadelphia Int'l Airport receives many direct flights from L.A. And I suspect that hotels in Philly are cheaper than those in Boston, NYC, and D.C.
The new Convention Center is adjacent to convention-friendly hotels, and that complex is just blocks away from the historic attractions as well as Chinatown, with all its wonderful restaurants.
Plus, Philadelphia is the birthplace of DENNIS PATRICK and THE DIVINE GRAYSON HALL!
Regards,
John
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Perhaps Midnite and give an idea of when a final decision for dates might be so that we can reserve our rooms???
Miss_Winthrop, make your reservation!
The Fest has been moved to Labor Day weekend. This petition is to let TPTB (the powers that be) know how the group of fans signing it feel about the change.
And to answer CastleBee, yes!, the petition is still circulating and fans are still invited to sign.
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so far Bernie this is just a plan isn't it???
Hey Jennifer!! I forgot that you go to school in Beantown. Yeah it's just a plan at present. I imagine it has to be ratified by the Boston City Council, but Menino has a good track record in getting his way with them.
Money wise, it probably amounts to 50 cents more per ticket, and I'm not even sure that fest tickets would apply. But you know these guys, they never met a tax or fee they didn't like!
Bernie
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I know I'm coming into this late.
I won't be able to attend no matter the date.
I know the answer to why the fest is always
on one coast or the other, but I still think
it would be a great thing to have at least
one fest in the mid-west. Chicago or
Indianapolis would be my top choices.
Julianka
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I know the answer to why the fest is always
on one coast or the other, but I still think
it would be a great thing to have at least
one fest in the mid-west. Chicago or
Indianapolis would be my top choices.
Julianka
I think that would be great!! Kansas City or St Louis might be good picks too, wouldn't they. It's kind of a shame that it's always on one of the coasts. I've never been to the mid-west, but would love to visit someday. So many interesting things to do, and very nice people too, I'm told.
Bernie
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I already posted a long message on the subject on the DS NG, complete with suggestions for alternate locations, and I KNOW Ann must have read it, so go ahead and use my ID on your petition. I already have plans to attend (if my family circumstances will allow) but some of the people I would have liked to see won't be there. >sniffle<
The change has been explained as a scheduling conflict with the actors/tresses themselves, but who? And how many? The previous dates were announced a couple of months ago already. Suddenly, ALL these DS people have other projects / family events going on? I think we should have been informed, so the fans themselves could weigh in on whom they are most willing or unwilling to miss, in order to decide on attending.
In Tarrytown, we paid $55 (banquet another $50)
a head for a 3-day event that only included FIVE DS performers, 2 of whom left before the weekend was over. Of the 6 Festivals, there have been events advertising as many as a dozen stars, but it's hit or miss, most have had less. Still, the admission rate is good enough, so if only a half-dozen show up, that's okay, because usually there IS someone to please most attendees, and there's also much private fun to be had with fellow fans.
So, if the issue was, if Jim advertised 12 stars, and only 6 showed up again, would that have been a major loss, or was it because ALL the stars who are usually the big draws couldn't make it in August? (I'm thinking David, Kathryn, Lara, AND John--- who seem to be the Big Four now.) Or is the festival pursuing someone SO elusive and SO in demand, that they feel they just can't do without? Or some other entertainment?
Getting out of NYC already is a good idea (though please, no more Las Vegas either. Chicago, Atlantic City, the CT casino resorts, anything.)
Jazzing up the existing Festival, to compensate if the star turnout isn't so great, is another. I wish the Fest would include a dance floor after the banquet instead of more videos.
The female stars in Tarrytown did NOT get mauled there (in fact, Lara Parker was twirled in the air like a scene in Saturday Night Fever and she appeared to ENJOY it--- Terrayne Crawford is another dance diva, I must say.)
So at this point, now that most of us are in our middle years, it may not be a major safety problem. Fans DID dance with one another too, even after the stars called it quits, and we ALL had a blast, without a BLITZ.
What the hey, run everyone's ideas up the flagpole and see how they fly. While I doubt things will change NOW, if they want to keep "our DS thing" going for a few more years, they may have to give an inch or two.
Lorraine
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Example being the 1998 Las Vegas Festival. There was a very good turnout of the DS Celebs.
While I totally LOVE NYC, if it meant more people being able to attend, I would support relocating the Festival to a different State/City so that we could find a date that would accommodate the majority.:) Bob
Hey, I am all for another state and Philly would be great because of all the historic sites there but I am sure there are numerous nice places across our country to visit. Now on the other hand, when I was at the Tarrytown Halloween party a few months back, one of the cast members told me that a few of them did not like the Las Vegas location because too many people were in the casino's gambling and not in the fest. I did not go but wonder if anyone who did noticed this? This person also said the same thing with Anaheim due to Disney Land. NYC is not exactly dullville USA and I would think that would distract people (like me:-)).
Any thoughts??
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Now on the other hand, when I was at the Tarrytown Halloween party a few months back, one of the cast members told me that a few of them did not like the Las Vegas location because too many people were in the casino's gambling and not in the fest. I did not go but wonder if anyone who did noticed this? This person also said the same thing with Anaheim due to Disney Land. NYC is not exactly dullville USA and I would think that would distract people (like me:-)).
Any thoughts??
I personally would not spend airfare across the country to only attend a Dark Shadows Festival or any other fan type convention. I would go if there were other things to do and take advantage of discounted hotel fare and have friends around to visit and take with me touring the sites. I know that others feel the same way I do and take advantage of going to the New York Festivals to also see Broadway shows and other things that are what one does when visiting New York. I imagine that was the same for Las Vegas as well. A common complaint about the Los Angeles festival is that it is generally held at or near the airport and not near enough anything else. I think some of the actors, like the one you talked with, don't realize that many people go to these events just to socialize with friends and the fest is a fun backdrop of all that. Sure, they participate in some of the programming but in between times do other things outside the hotel.
What I'm getting at in my roundabout way is I think it's unrealistic for anyone to expect attendees at the festivals to not want to do other things besides stay inside a hotel day and night watching videos until their eyeballs fall out. If that is all there was to do, I know plenty of people who would not go at all.
Nancy
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I think that would be great!! Kansas City or St Louis might be good picks too, wouldn't they. It's kind of a shame that it's always on one of the coasts. I've never been to the mid-west, but would love to visit someday. So many interesting things to do, and very nice people too, I'm told.
St. Louis would be a great city for the fest Bernie :)
I visited there and there are many things to see
and do. And thank you from a mid-west native :)
Julianka
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I am for the Boston location, but than again I live west of the city so I guess I am bias. I know it is not very practical but I still think Newport would be fabulous. If they did it in May they might miss the summer raise in rates. I think it would be very enjoyable for the attendee's and the stars.
Birdie
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Add my name to the list of those not happy with the new dates. While the Labor Day weekend will not be a problem for my own attendance, no less than 8 of my friends (including our dear Midnite) will not be able to attend because of this switch. Now, since they won't be there, I am undecided as to if I want to go.
I agree with LorraineAAB's reasoning. If several of the DS guests couldn't make the original dates, so what? EVERY year, several of the announced Festival guests don't make it and there are some disappointed fans who still go on to have a good time. I'd even wager that one or two of the guests who are the very "reason" that the dates were changed will likely cancel out at the last minute anyway. Of course, as LorraineAAB suggests, there IS the possibility of a VERY SPECIAL guest. If it were Jonathan Frid, Dan Curtis, Alexandra Isles or David Henesy, I could totally understand (even though Henesy was a no-show TWICE in the history of the Festivals).
I do wish the Festival would move around on the east coast a bit. Philly, Boston, Baltimore, Orlando. And San Francisco was considered several years ago for the west coast, right?
SDP
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I am for the Boston location, but than again I live west of the city so I guess I am bias. I know it is not very practical but I still think Newport would be fabulous.
Birdie
Hello Birdie!
I live west of Boston, too, in Concord. What about you? (Sorry if I'm being too nosy!)
Maybe some of us Boston area fans should have our own DS fest one day.
Actually I think Philly and Chicago would be interesting alternatives, as I'd love visiting two cities I've never been to before, and I understand that there is much to see and do in either city. I completely agree with an earlier poster that holding a convention in a locale that enables attendees to enjoy other things besides DS related events is important to many of us. Can't imagine shelling out all that money just to spend all my time at an LA airport!
And what about DC? Too expensive?
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Oh, well, I guess things could REALLY be worse--- my beloved only son informed me just LAST WEEK that he wanted to travel to SOUTHERN UTAH to visit friends during his plant's shutdown--- just before Xmas till after New Year!
After hours of arguing, then realizing I couldn't make a 6'6" young adult change his mind, we scrambled through Priceline, Orbitz, Expedia. . . The absolute lowest fare (Expedia) totalled about $550, the next up were $700 or MORE. . .
THREE stopovers, making the trip about 11 hours worth (IF he doesn't get bumped to other flights or they're screwed up due to the weather, etc. along the way) including a hop on a propeller-driven air taxi through Arizona. . . (and the same deal on the way BACK. . . At least he won't have to pay for a motel but if things don't work out there, he's stuck. . . AUUUGGHH!
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HappyBat, I live just north of Worcester. Worcester is where I grow up. I did remember you and Ginger Cat live in Concord and I think of both of you when driving Rt 2 through Concord on my way to Salem to get my daugher.
Spoiler---I think Tim Shaw mentioned Worcerster once, I was so excited it was mentioned on my favorite show back in 1969.
Birdie
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Being that this is going to be my first fest I was really looking forward to it. But the thought of driving through a major traffic lined route on a big holiday weekend is surely nothing to be looking forward to! Im also wondering if the events of 9/11 have something to do with the location change also? I think a better choice for the fest location would be in Tarrytown at the Marriot where the Halloween fest was held. I think alot more fans would have been happier with this choice then Brooklyn.
It's bad enough living so close to the city and driving there on a holiday weekend but for anyone who's planning on driving in from out of State it's going to be hell trying to get across the GW bridge!
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Being that this is going to be my first fest I was really looking forward to it. But the thought of driving through a major traffic lined route on a big holiday weekend is surely nothing to be looking forward to! Im also wondering if the events of 9/11 have something to do with the location change also?
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There's a Marriott in the Financial district, not so far away from the WTC site, that was damaged that day, and then repaired and renovated. I had received the "Rewards" offers for VERY attractive reduced room rates around January. Quite frankly I'm surprised that the Festival wasn't to be held THERE instead. There's a beautifully repaired enclosed mall there, too, that was recently re-opened, and closer access to the parts of New York people prefer to see.
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I think a better choice for the fest location would be in Tarrytown at the Marriot where the Halloween fest was held. I think alot more fans would have been happier with this choice then Brooklyn.
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That was the Hilton--- main problem--- it's nowhere NEAR as large to accommodate the 100's who usually stay at the Festival venues, more like a big motel. But there ARE other hotels in that vicinity, and they usually have cheaper rates on weekends, to fill them up. If the fans don't mind being split up like that, and there's some fairly-priced means to get them to and from the main convention area, and a day trip to Lyndhurst, I don't know why this can't be done.
But it would take "thinking outside the box" on the part of The Planner, and a lot of co-operation from the customers--- er, I mean, fans.
Lorraine
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Many, many thanks to those that assisted in circulating the petition, and to everyone that signed and in some cases added their comments. At year's end the list will be compiled for mailing, so if anyone is still interested in being heard on these issues in this way there's only a handful of days left to participate. I've received far more names via email, so in addition to making use of this thread please be assured that if you prefer to sign using Midnite@dsboards.com, the only place your name and/or comments will appear will be on the 2 copies sent to the individuals listed at the top of page 1. Thank you again!
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Count me in?
jennifer
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Hey Midnite... [wavey] (How are you, my dear?)
I don't know that I find the Fest dates necessarily a problem for me personally (it's so far off, I have NO idea what might conflict). But since it seems to be such an impossibility for so many, please feel free to add my name to the petition if you think it will help. (The more names the merrier?) lol
As long as it's in the NYC area, and Selby will be there, I'm happy I suppose.
-CLC ;)
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Hi Midnite!
Well, the change to Labor Day is not a good one by any stretch of the imagination. Schools start here over a week before the holiday. (LeBrat will have to miss a day or two of school.) Add to that the frustration of the date change for those of us who must request our vacations IN WRITING well in advance of the time needed. It will not prevent me from attending, but I am really disappointed that many of the folks who are regulars (such as you) will not be in attendance. I don't think the PTB could have picked a more inopportune time. Sign me up kiddo. :) Dawn
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You can sign me up, too. Although the Labor Day weekend isn't as big of a problem for me as it is for others here, I'd hate to find that almost none of you will be at the Fest. So, count me in for your petition!