Author Topic: "Filthy" DS Topic  (Read 3057 times)

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Offline Gerard

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"Filthy" DS Topic
« on: February 26, 2017, 01:32:34 AM »
I was looking at a site where they talked about when "swear" or "filthy" words were first used on television.  Words like "damn," "hell," "bitch," "bastard."  They started to become common-place by the late eighties.  The site talked about "damn," - not "damn," but "damn."  Some say it was in the '70's in All In the Family, when during a heated argument, Archie screamed it but it was barely audible because everyone was screaming and, therefore, the censors allowed it.  Edith chastised Archie for saying "GD." 

I say it was on DS.  Unless I'm suffering from DSFMS, it was in the episode where Barnabas was dying from the vampire bat bite and Angelique was arguing with Ben.  Thayer David, who was obviously an incredible method actor and immersed himself in a role, was Ben and acted accordingly.  If I remember, he went off-script somewhat and shouted at Angelique (paraphrasing here):  "I don't care about your damn..."  If that actually happened, how did they get away with it?  First, DS loathed to re-shoot scenes unless absolutely necessary because it was done live-on-tape.  Second, not wanting to re-shoot the scene, the DS PTB hoped the TV PTB censors wouldn't notice.  Third, because DS wasn't prime-time, no PTB would care.  Fourth, combine all of that together, and it aired with the banned "damn."  I haven't seen that scene since the Sci-Fi network stopped airing DS, but I saw it a multitude of times while it did.  Do I have DSFMS?  If any of you have that episode on tape/DVD, take a look.  Am I wrong?

I remember that Star Trek was the first show to use "hell" as a swear word.  It wanted to use it on previous episodes when people, especially Bones, wanted to say:  "go to hell."  It was changed to "go to the devil."  Finally, on the classic "City on the Edge of Forever," Kirk said, for the first time:  "Let's get the hell out of here."  It was almost as much as a cultural shock as when the first interracial kiss happened between Kirk and Uhura.  The censors allowed it because they were "forced" to kiss by aliens.

Today, censors are far more, shall we say, liberal.  Only non-cable networks still have some restrictions.  Cable networks have more freedom.  That's why we here words like "shit" on cable programming.  It's used on virtually every episode of The Walking Dead.  Well, like it or not, that's how people talk.  From what I've seen, the only prime-time, non-cable network that has really tried to push the envelope, is American Dad.  And it really pushes.  On an episode, where Roger worked with Francine in an enterprise, he was on the phone with a client when Francine started berating him.  He told the client he had to hang up because the "C-U-Next-Tuesday" was on his back.  I thought it was hysterical.  I couldn't believe the censors allowed it.  But then Roger has said so many outrageous things.  I could list them here.

So, did Ben/Thayer David say "damn" on that episode?  Those of you who have it, pop it in the player ans see if it's true or am I suffering from DSFMS.  If he said it, DS had another first. 

Gerard

Offline Gothick

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 07:48:47 AM »
Hi Gerard, I don't remember any of the dialogue in the 1795 episode you mention (unlike most other fans, 1795 isn't one of my favorite storylines and I've probably only seen that particular episode once).  But I do remember with crystalline clarity Nicholas Blair exulting over Maggie Evans when she was offered upon the Black Altar:  "Let the legions of the Damned... salute you!"  I'm guessing that line was allowed because the sense in which the word was used was somehow... theological?

Censorship is fascinating.  It's also worth noting that it wasn't until 1970 and Leviathan that a couple was shown in bed together--Carolyn and Jeb's doomed night in that motel.  And it wasn't until 1971 and the PT 1841 storyline that an unmarried couple were shown, if only by implication, sharing a bed with the scene where Bramwell has his way with Catherine. 

Also worth noting that DS may have pioneered the 1980s and 1990s phenomenon of the shirtless soap hunks with Don Briscoe, Joel Crothers, and I need hardly add, David Selby.

Best,  G.

Offline Patti Feinberg

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 04:13:34 PM »
Let the legions of the Damned...

That's not actually 'swearing', it's used correctly (not like damn you Vicki).

Quote
unmarried couple were shown, if only by implication, sharing a bed

What about Sebastian Shaw and ....Roxanne (forget character's name in this arc)?

Patti

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Offline Gerard

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 06:49:41 PM »
I remember reading in, I think, The Twilight Zone Companion, that the writers would always try to push the envelope when it came to "course language" and scripts were filled with "damn."  Of course, in the late 50's-early 60's, that was unthinkable, but it allowed for a give-and-take to allow something else in, whether language, scenes, plots, etc.  "OK, we can't say 'damn,' but then can we..." and it was begrudgingly permitted. 

On an episode of Star Trek, Bones was to say "damn."  Again, it was give-and-take, and for the first time, for some odd reason, the censors allowed "damnable."  He couldn't say "damn," but he was allowed to say "damnable."  Makes sense?  Well, probably not, but it paved the way for more "realistic" language. 

By the early 70's, "damn" and "hell" were permitted as "swear words" on television.  "God damn" was not.  Like I said, All in the Family was the first to use it (other than what I remember Ben using it on DS) when Archie screamed it out quickly, again the censors maybe allowing it while cringing because of the context in which it was used.  Archie was in one of his usual rages, everyone was screaming, and Edith quickly berated him for "always using GD" which he protested saying he "never" said that.  Of course, AItF also made history by showing, for the first time ever, male frontal nudity - when Archie had to change his grandson Joey's diaper in a hysterical scene.  Norman Lear had to fight with the censors, saying there was no possible way to film it without everything showing and, besides, it involved a weeks-old baby.  They caved.  Baby Joey also created a social revolution when the doll of him came out with the "warning" that it "anatomically correct."  Yup, it had a winky and is now a huge collector's item.  M*A*S*H was the first to use "son-of-a-bitch."  By the late 80's-early 90's, network censors (and the FCC) allowed "bitch," "bastard" and "ass" full freedom.  In the 2010's, the FCC allowed "shit" and "ass" on all non-subscription cable channels (but not prime-time, except in the rarest circumstances). 

Dan Curtis broke barriers in 1989 when the FCC allowed him to show full-frontal male-and-female nudity in the episode of War and Remembrance while filming the Auschwitz death-chamber scene (with Sir John Gielgud).  Again, like Lear on AItF, he argued there was no possible way to shoot it realistically (as it should have been) without nudity.  The brutality of the Holocaust could not be presented in any other way.  It was the same back in the mid-70's when the FCC/censors allowed topless women to be shown on the first episode of Roots.  It had to do with historical accuracy when showing women in African culture where women's breasts were not considered sexual; however, women's legs were in African culture, so they were always covered. 

In the mid-90's, Schindler's List was aired on prime-time but only after Spielberg insisted it be done so uncut and uncensored, meaning all the R-rated elements, from language, nudity to violence be shown.  The FCC permitted it with the caveat that a warning be presented at the beginning that "viewer discretion is advised." 

Cinematic and televised programming has changed a great deal.  Back in 1969, Midnight Cowboy was the first and only X-rated (now NC-17) film to win the Oscar as best picture.  Today, it can air during the day on any channel without any cuts or censoring.  It's contents, by today's standards, are considered "mild."  Many surviving soap operas show far "harsher" material.

Gerard

Offline Patti Feinberg

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2017, 01:44:37 AM »
non-subscription cable channels (but not prime-time, except in the rarest circumstances).

I was (and still am) shocked when, on 'Mark Greene's' farewell episode on "er", he said s**t.

I actually saw it on a day-time rerun, and they didn't 'bleep' it out.

I was proud of NBC, because of the context, it was real and necessary (real life).

Patti

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Offline Midnite

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 03:18:43 AM »
I say it was on DS.  Unless I'm suffering from DSFMS, it was in the episode where Barnabas was dying from the vampire bat bite and Angelique was arguing with Ben.  Thayer David, who was obviously an incredible method actor and immersed himself in a role, was Ben and acted accordingly.  If I remember, he went off-script somewhat and shouted at Angelique (paraphrasing here):  "I don't care about your damn..."

Admittedly, I didn't check the DVD, but I honestly don't recall the d-word during that exchange.  However, Roger did say it very early in the series.  In the infamous hundred miles/hundred feet episode (#17), after Bill Malloy points out that they can't prove that Burke tampered with the bleeder valve, Roger tells him, "I don't give a damn about proof."  So yes, we heard it on DS in 1966.

Offline michael c

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 01:54:49 AM »
i could be wrong but during the entire five year run i think the newlywed Mr. and Mrs. Jeb Hawkes was the first and only time we ever saw a couple in bed together.  [snow_shocked]
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Offline Gerard

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2017, 09:07:16 PM »
I watched Duel:  Bette and Joan on the cable Fox.  It's not subscription.  Not only did it throw the "f" word around, it also included the "c" word.  I was, shall we, say "shocked;" not by the words, but that they are now obviously allowed on non-subscription cable TV.  It's like when the "f" word was first allowed in, ironically, '81's Mommie Dearest uttered by Faye Dunaway (Don't "f" with me, fellas!")  in a PG-13 rather than an R-rated movie.  And in '97, for the first time in a PG-13 movie, one saw a woman's breasts in Titanic

But it all makes me think of the "urban legend" that DC and the other PTB's originally considered Joan Crawford for the role of Elizabeth Collins Stoddard, but because of her own "spirits" problems, she was rejected.  An urban legend it remains, with anecdotes and possible evidence not completely provable, such as naming the Titanic's following sister-ship the Gigantic (discarded, according to urban legend after the sinking and renamed the Britannic, which, herself, was sunk as a WWI hospital ship after striking a mine in Greek waters) and the original Queen Mary (now permanently berthed in California as a combination hotel/resort/museum/conference-space) being named the Queen Victoria but when the current King, who's wife was named Mary, was asked if the ship could be named after England's most "illustrious" Queen (meaning Victoria) and he said:  "My wife would be delighted!"  Well, how do you get out of that?  Finally, the Cunard Line launched and named a ship Queen Victoria.  I was fortunate to sail aboard her.

Gerard

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2017, 09:56:19 PM »
Personally, my favorite exchange from the show was this one:

Quotes of the Week for March 5, 2017 - FEUD: BETTE AND JOAN (Bonus Quote!)

Offline Uncle Roger

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2017, 10:40:52 PM »
I love Jackie Hoffmann! She does quite a lot of stage worth in NYC. I got to see her as the muse Calliope in the Broadway version of Xanadu. There was a spot in the show for her to adlib (to pick on the audience is more accurate). One night It was my turn. Not only did I make my Broadway debut but I got two huge laughs.
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Offline michael c

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2017, 11:09:07 PM »
i wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that DC and company had at some early stage of development  "considered" JC for the role of Liz.

at the time, and continuing well into the 1980s, it was becoming somewhat common practice to cast, shall we say, slightly "past their prime" actresses from Hollywood's "golden age" in frothy roles as dowagers and matriarchs on soap operas.

the pay was probably chump change compared to what they had earned on the big screen at their peak. but it was regular work which by the 1960s was not easy to come by. and dented egos were placated by special "starring" or "above the title" billing (which we certainly saw with Joan on DS well after Jonathan Frid was the clearly established star) and lavish wardrobe.

i don't know exactly JB was ultimately selected but there was probably a list of actresses from the period in preliminary consideration.
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Offline Midnite

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 04:41:38 AM »
Speaking of Feud: B & J, does anyone else get a vibe from this shot of Susan Sarandon of, besides Bette Davis, another redhead often spotted with round glasses and a cigarette?


Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 05:40:33 AM »
Yes - definitely!  [snow_wink]

Offline Midnite

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 06:06:18 AM »
Ooh...

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: "Filthy" DS Topic
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 10:53:18 AM »
I remember damn and hell as being rare in the 60s but allowed once in a great while.  That I suppose I could be wrong about, but I was there.  With Trek's City on the Edge of Forever, not once in my 50 years of watching it and hearing about it have I heard that it was the first appearance of "hell" on TV... only that it was the first on Star Trek.  As for societal impact, even the "first inter-racial kiss" did not have a huge impact then, because Star Trek was a fringe show that was having trouble staying on the air.   
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