Author Topic: Quentin and Jenny  (Read 2537 times)

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Offline Gothick

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 10:57:28 PM »
I can definitely understand why Quentin, and David Selby, became such a huge hit in '69-'70.  The original Quentin Collins stooryline put the character through his very own Greek tragedy.  He went from charming, ruthless rogue, to scheming lothariio, to money-hungry black magician, to bawling, traumatized victim, all within a couple of months.  The actor simply radiated emotional energy in the role--in every way this was a bravura performance. 

After 1897 he never was given such wonderful material to work with again, although a montage of Quentin/Desmond scenes run at a Festival at which Selby and John Karlen shared a stage did show how beautifully both men played off one another in the otherwise somewhat lacklustre 1840 storyline.

Just some thoughts--I'm sure other fans will have their own opinions.  I'm not a "Psycho for Selby," but I did enjoy the shots of his fine derriere in the movie The Girl in Blue (added for purposes of full disclosure--of course!).  And I've talked to him a couple of times about Grayson and found him to be that rarissime in today's world--a gentleman.

G.

Offline Garth Blackwood

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 11:02:03 PM »
Accidentally on purpose. Yeah.

[spoiler]I mean, he was all ready to break into the Josette's room at the Old House and shoot her. The only thing that stopped him was when Beth reminded him that if he went through with it, he would have to face the consequences (hanging for murder).

I'm guessing that when he finally did get his hands around her throat (after her second attempt at murdering him, though I can't really blame her) rage and self-preservation took over and he couldn't have stopped himself if he tried. Maybe his mind just blanked out and he didn't realize what he was doing until it he had already gone too far.[/spoiler]

What you wrote is also my personal view of what happened.
[spoiler]Even though Quentin did seem to have a "good riddance" attitude after Jenny's death, I think it was purely because she was constantly trying kill him. Q wouldn't have wanted Jenny dead if she wasn't a homicidal maniac.[/spoiler]
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IluvBarnabas

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 11:48:38 PM »
[spoiler]Even though Quentin did seem to have a "good riddance" attitude after Jenny's death, I think it was purely because she was constantly trying kill him. Q wouldn't have wanted Jenny dead if she wasn't a homicidal maniac.[/spoiler]

[spoiler] It was Quentin's own fault that Jenny turned into a homicial maniac out to kill him. It was his infidelity and his abandoning her that drove her over the edge. [/spoiler]

Offline arashi

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2008, 12:26:00 AM »
 [pointing-up] The adage, You reap what you sow, was never more true.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2008, 05:39:33 AM »
I'm just trying to say that there isn't a big important difference between intentional and unintentional in this case.    He hovers in an inbetween zone between homicidal maniac and virtuous guy who wouldn't hurt a fly, and isn't anywhere close to being either.    He didn't fully mean to do it at that second, but did want to do it earlier.    Anyway, if you strangle someone to death you're a murderer.    You can't say, I meant to strangle her less hard...  his murder was a murder, but to some extent he felt backed into a corner.    Jenny was miserable, and dangereous, wasn't she?    No good end to that story.

It sounds as if people are trying to decide if Q is innocent or guilty.  Sorry, he's neither or both.
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Offline Doug

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2008, 11:37:13 AM »
The way I look at it. [spoiler]If Quentin would not kill Jenny, then she will kill him.[/spoiler]

Offline Lydia

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2008, 07:34:08 AM »
I always find it interesting that, on the whole, people let Quentin off the hook for killing Jenny, while they cannot forgive
[spoiler]Barnabas for killing Carl.[/spoiler]
My impression is that Quentin had smaller hands and would have had to work harder at it.

Offline Gothick

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2008, 03:49:15 PM »
Having re-watched a couple of the episodes in question over the weekend--
[spoiler]The scene of Jenny's death played exactly as I remembered it.  Quentin disarmed her, then pushed her down on the bed and squeezed the life's breath right out of her, his face a mask of murderous rage, while Beth screamed and wept and begged him to stop.  She died with her eyes still open, staring in horror at what was happening (unfortunately, probably due to awkwardness in manoeuvring around a rather tight sight, we didn't get a very artistic shot of Marie's face with eyes glaring sightllessly upwards at the end.

However, in a subsequent scene with Edward, both Beth and Quentin describe what happened as an "accident."  Since I have not seen the script, I've never known whether it was written to be played as if Quentin was just trying to make sure she had really been disarmed and "acciidentally" strangled her to death, or whether it was the director and David Selby's decision to play it as if Quentin was in a state of coldly murderous rage, bordering on bestial (an interesting choice of words given the curse that falls on hiim shortly thereafter).

Also, although I had not remembered it, some weeks later, when Magda has been ordered by Angelique to fetch Quentin, Quentin and Magda have a scene in which Quentin does express how much he loved Jenny and hints at feeling something like remorse for her death.  It's a short scene but the two of them play it beautifully (I think David and Grayson had great onscreen chem--they did a play together later in the Seventies, too).

One final comment--I really love the sequence of Quentin's nightmare of being forced by Magda and Sandor to bless Jenny's dead body.  I love the staging, the accompaniment by what might have been a live-on-set quiet bongo, the feel of something you could have seen in a New York off-off B'way production of the period.  Grand stuff.

[/spoiler]

G.

Offline Pansity

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Re: Quentin and Jenny
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2008, 12:53:27 AM »
Great thread, and once again,coming in late <Just call me the White Rabbit>. I had just had most of a post written when the internet gremlins decided to close explorer,so here's my attempt at reconstructing it....

(SPOILERS! --posted by admin)

At one time I powerwatched these scenes repeatedly for stuff I was writing,as I needed to think out the POV of all the participants. My conclusion on Quentin was that the attack was a surprise and he didn't ACT so much as REact. I think his INITIAL reaction was just to stop her, and things got out of hand. One thing that only a few posters took into account was his previous stabbing by Jenny. We are shown that he has no recollection of his time as a zombie -- but his memories of the stabbing by Jenny are as clear as the proverbial bell, and he has this understandable reluctance to repeat the experience.  I would compare this to the instances of cops who are shot in the line of duty -- then overreact BIGTIME  the next time a similar circumstance occurs.  PTSD wasn't known then (as most mental conditions weren't) but here's someone who was attacked and nearly killed,being attacked again by the same person under similar circumstances. This is known for causing the victim to relive the circumstances of the initial attack. Only this time,not as a helpless victim knifed before he could defend himself, but in circumstances where he has the upper hand. THis to me is the most plausible explanation, as it covers Quentin's continuing, the expression of rage (and to me it looks like he is looking at her, but doesn't SEE her,if you know what I mean) -- and also what no one has mentioned,his reaction right afterward.  Once Jenny is dead, Beth's cries FINALLY get through to him and he looks down and actually FOCUSSES on what he has done.His initial expression seems to me a cross between horror and about to vomit -- then he runs as if the hounds of hell are on his heels. Remember too that the early Quentin tended to talk big and make a lot of threats that he never followed through on-- and  there's a lot of difference between planning murder in the abstract,and actually killing someone with your bare hands.

Also, as MagnusTrask points out, its not important in the long run since she is still dead.  I would qualify that, though to state that it matters as regards where and how the character develops from that point on; his experiences and perceptions of the experience influencing the way he changed after that.

As to the remorse, Gothick points out the one scene right after he is cursed. That seems to be to be simple human nature. Once Jenny was dead, he didn't see that Jenny anymore, but would be remembering the early one, the one he fell in love with. There's also a later scene, when Jenny comes to him in a dream,asking him not to bring Lenore to Collinwood. He's talking to her, and telling her how he wishes things could have been different for them. I can't see that  as anything but genuine remorse, since there's nothing he wants or can get from her.  He doesn't even ask her to forgive him. Perhaps thats because, as with Beth's ghost later on, he couldn't ask for or accept her forgiveness because he wasn't able to forgive himself.

Jeannie


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