Vampire Survival Puzzlement

[BuzzH]

Essentially he is a monster.

 Barnabas isn't a hero.  In fact, he possesses many of the qualities of a villain (calculating, brutal, vampire, murderer, unforgiving, a liar) but has the soul of a hero (courage, willing to risk danger in order to help his family, guilt over his blood-drinking, strong romantic feelings of love for Josette and others).  This combination of traits makes Barnabas an anti-hero.  The anti-hero, as a literary concept, has been around since the dawn of literature and Barnabas, from 68-71, is the anti-hero to a T.   He definitely starts out as a villain, and that does change as the show goes on.  I'd never say he was a hero though.  He simply possesses too many non-heroic, flat-out villainous traits.  Barnabas killed quite a few more people after Carl, although viewers tend to forgive those murders because most of them were "bad guys."

Right on Penny!  He is an *anti-hero*, just like Luke Spencer on GH! 

[Misa]

BuzzH,

Were you one of the lucky ones who got to see the WB pilot? I thought that it sounded as though it would have been a really exciting show.

Sure wish someone would make a new Dark Shadows.

Misa

[MagnusTrask]

Essentially he is a monster.

 Barnabas isn't a hero.  In fact, he possesses many of the qualities of a villain (calculating, brutal, vampire, murderer, unforgiving, a liar) but has the soul of a hero (courage, willing to risk danger in order to help his family, guilt over his blood-drinking, strong romantic feelings of love for Josette and others).  This combination of traits makes Barnabas an anti-hero.  The anti-hero, as a literary concept, has been around since the dawn of literature and Barnabas, from 68-71, is the anti-hero to a T.   He definitely starts out as a villain, and that does change as the show goes on.  I'd never say he was a hero though.  He simply possesses too many non-heroic, flat-out villainous traits.  Barnabas killed quite a few more people after Carl, although viewers tend to forgive those murders because most of them were "bad guys."

I like your post quite a bit and there's a lot to chew over here.

Some various disconnected thoughts in response...

PD... Do you like Barnabas?

For thirty years or so I've had trouble assimilating the concept of "anti-hero".   I never knew whether to see it as the exact opposite of "hero", or as a more 3-D mixture of "good" and "bad"... as if there really are such things anyway.

Do you think it was the intent of the writers (forget DC) to have such an "anti-hero" as their... protagonist, or semi-protagonist?   Were they thinking in that complex a way?

It'd be great to think of a subversive group of creative people back then, doing their best to get great, cool, challenging material past the DS and ABC suits and goons.

Let me be plain and clear as to my opposition to murder.   In fact, I mean for a statue to myself to be constructed someday to commemorate my personal, heroic stance against murder.    I'm really going out on a limb here, I know, in my opposition to offing folks that one doesn't like, but that's just the kind of guy I am.     Yet... except for Carl, which is an incident that stands out like a sore thumb, I think Barney Baby exercised a certain degree of restraint in this department.     I do like the idea of having principles of right and wrong which supercede those of the society in general.     Except for Carl and the possible depletion of necessary post-death neurotransmitters* which may be responsible for that act, I generally applaud BCs slaughters.     In fact next time I intend to literally applaud.    My moral sense may be skewed in some weird way.

If you agree with an anti-hero's murders, are you evil?

[BuzzH]

BuzzH,

Were you one of the lucky ones who got to see the WB pilot? I thought that it sounded as though it would have been a really exciting show.

Indeed I was lucky enough to see the WB pilot Misa, and it was AWESOME!  I make no secret of the fact that I despised the NBC show and was happy when it got canned, but this one....this one I could have definately gotten in to.  They finally had a gorgeous, sexy Barnabas in Alec Newman.  I mean puhleeze....BEN CROSS?!!  Hell Frid was better than him!  Don't get me wrong, I thought Frid was *great* as Barnabas, even if he wasn't gorgeous, sexy or knew his lines every day.  But Alec....sigh...........!  Even Willie was hot although I always thought Johnny Karlen was little slice of heaven.    Still is....

[Misa]

Oh yes, John Karlen's Willie was absolutely great! I'm talking about Willie up to where he is sent to Wyndcliff.

The way he portrayed him made you just want to be able to hold him and tell him everything was going to be okay, and try to make things better for him.

He was vulnerable, sad, cute, sexy, (although the writer's didn't play this part up). He felt so much guilt because he had released Barnabas. He tried so hard to help Maggie, but was not able to completely go against Barnabas. He tried to protect people from Barnabas if he could.

Again, wasn't he just so CUTE and SEXY? I felt so awful when he was shot. Lucky for him he couldn't remember anything then, or Barnabas probably would have killed him.

Misa

[Connie]

Don't get me wrong, I thought Frid was *great* as Barnabas, even if he wasn't gorgeous, sexy or knew his lines every day. 

Hm...I take exception.
Don't know that I'd necessarily use the word "gorgeous", but I certainly found him uniquely attractive and definitely sexy in a subtle, refined way.

 

[BuzzH]

Don't get me wrong, I thought Frid was *great* as Barnabas, even if he wasn't gorgeous, sexy or knew his lines every day. 

Hm...I take exception.
Don't know that I'd necessarily use the word "gorgeous", but I certainly found him uniquely attractive and definitely sexy in a subtle, refined way.

 

I suppose there were times where he came off sorta sexy, those kissing scenes w/Angie in his bedroom during 1795 come to mind.  And of course, as Bramwell he WAS definately sexy, but that was the way that character was written.  But he pulled it off beautifully!  

[Connie]

And of course, as Bramwell he WAS definately sexy, but that was the way that character was written.  But he pulled it off beautifully!   

Yeah - especially in that scene in the garden with Catherine when he's sort of goading her about her life with Morgan.

Funny though - I find him the most sexy not necessarily in the romantic scenes with women, but when he's tormented over something.

Wierd?

 

[PennyDreadful]

PD... Do you like Barnabas?

Sure, I love Barnabas!  Look to the left.  See. I've got a nifty Basil Gogos Barnabas avatar.   PD clearly digs Barnabas!    That being said, I still think he's a bastard in a lot of ways.  He's fascinating, and he's my fave TV character ever, but I probably wouldn't wanna hang out with him.   While Barnabas might have many redeeming qualities, he's unpredictable and dangerous. In a bad way.

Check out this gruesome list of murder victims post-1795.

[spoiler]1968
Tom Jennings (twice! - though technically Tom was already dead, Barnabas was pretty callous in dispatching the vampire)

1796
Crystal Cabot

1897
Sophie Baker
Dirk Wilkins
Istvan
Carl Collins
A Deputy

1970 Leviathan
Megan Todd
Schuyler Rumson

1970 Parallel Time
Cyrus Longworth/John Yaeger

1995
Sheriff

1840
Lamar Trask

This is off the top of my head. I'm probably missing some. Several other deaths were indirectly caused by Barnabas - Roxanne in 1840, Edith in 1897, etc... We can also assume sundry Collinsport ladies of the evening met their doom off-camera during Barnabas' feedings/strangulations.[/spoiler]

It'd be great to think of a subversive group of creative people back then, doing their best to get great, cool, challenging material past the DS and ABC suits and goons.

Heck, I think that's exactly what was going on, plus they were making a unique TV show.  The DS writers were a cool bunch.  DS featured traditional gothic horror and romance, but was innovative in its knack for making most of these creatures into three-dimensional beings with feelings and human desires. The "otherness" of the monsters was tempered with a human soul.

Sure, I'd say the DS writers were definitely sneaking in some subversive cultural commentary.  For example, even though it was sick and twisted when Barnabas walled up Reverend Trask, the viewers sort of wanted him to do it - we were horrified, but couldn't help but cheer on a bloodsucking vampire as he walled up a devoutly religious, fanatically insane holy man.  Subversive?  You bet.

If you agree with an anti-hero's murders, are you evil?

Yes.   j/k

[stefan]

Ya know, I've been watching some 1897 lately -- around the time Julia arrives to aid Barnabas in saving the day for Quentin and the future generation.  He is SO on my nerves.  What a bossy, Mr. Know-It-All Fop!  Here Julia's risked her life to help him once again, and all he does is order her around in his usual obnoxious way, your can't tell him ANYTHING, he's telling Quentin how and why everything's been happening in this superior, knowing way......AND to add insult to injury, he's reading it all off the damned teleprompter!!   I wanna kick him in the head!  LOL
Oh yeah, and if that's not enough, he's about to go chasing after the latest Josette incarnation and the hell with everything else!

Yeau, this is true but what an idiot enabler Julia Hoffman is. Why does she follow him around trying to "help" him anyway? And ... he can't help chasing the latest Josette incarnation. That's Barnabas for you.

[Connie]

Yeau, this is true but what an idiot enabler Julia Hoffman is. Why does she follow him around trying to "help" him anyway?

Damned if I know. 

It's funny 'cause when you're watching and involved, etc., you don't really notice.  But if you stand back and look at the two of them, they're both quite ridiculous.  Maybe they deserve each other.

 

[MagnusTrask]

Yeau, this is true but what an idiot enabler Julia Hoffman is. Why does she follow him around trying to "help" him anyway?

Damned if I know.

It's funny 'cause when you're watching and involved, etc., you don't really notice.  But if you stand back and look at the two of them, they're both quite ridiculous.  Maybe they deserve each other.

It never once occurred to me, when I was a kid, to question the running around in time and Julia's involvement.    People are in trouble, you do stuff to help them.    That's still true, but (tangent) at what point do you stop fooling with time to prevent tragedies?    Couldn't you always think of more tragedies even within your own family that might be fixed given a year or two of agonizing travail in some past era?

Where do you get your money to live on, in the past?    What does Barnabas ever live on?   I know, he doesn't.    But when he's alive?   When he's dead but kicking, does he have zero material needs?     Except candles and matches?    Sometimes no one's even around to clean up.     Do vampires poop?   There's a children's book for you.... more tangents.     Toilet paper?    Note to self, do fan drawing of BC on the john for hell of it.   Further note to self:  don't do that after all.   (Eyes hurt like hell enough already.)     Addendum:  stop making so many notes to self or at least think for split second first.

What I meant to say was although Julia's to be applauded for trying so hard (where's her money come from?   And does she poop?   Wait, of course she does, never mind... there's where the thinking for a split second would have come in handy), and I still think we have to err on the side of believing people can just help other people because it's necessary--  (sentence getting too long so let's just pause and breathe a few moments to make up for the fact that I can't seem to figure out how to throw in a period occasionally....  okay continuing...) --- it's still strange how JH does all this for a couple of people connected to someone else's family.... wait, I'm just a crappy 21st century callous cynic now that I hear myself talking.    But I went to a lot of trouble to type all that, so I'm posting it.

PD------ I was asking whether you like BC on a personal level, actually, or just appreciate him as a dramatic character.    I thought it was a good moment to ask that.    You don't so much, and thus far I still do.    Lamar was very overdue.    We do need legal restraints on revenge for the society overall, but some of those can't exactly be called murders except in court. 

I'll do a better response to you later.

[Connie]

.....at what point do you stop fooling with time to prevent tragedies?    Couldn't you always think of more tragedies even within your own family that might be fixed given a year or two of agonizing travail in some past era?

Good question.  But let's face it - I would imagine that a good number of us, given the opportunity, would go back in time to fix a couple of things.  One would have to be very careful however, and consider the far-reaching effects on the future.  It would definitely be easy to get carried away.  Life's lessons are what make us who we are.

If you were allowed to travel back in time and maybe change one or two things, what would it be?  (Within your own life and family - not the world at large)   It's a lot to think about.

Do vampires poop? 

Now THERE'S an important question!  lol
I'd vote no.  I mean, they don't eat, correct?  So, there ya go.

 

[BuzzH]

If you were allowed to travel back in time and maybe change one or two things, what would it be?  (Within your own life and family - not the world at large)   It's a lot to think about.

Do vampires poop?

Now THERE'S an important question!  lol
I'd vote no.  I mean, they don't eat, correct?  So, there ya go.

Within my family I can't think of anything, but if it *was* the world at large, it would be 9/11.  I'd have every one of those Al Quada bastards caught at their respective security check-points.  I'd also reverse the 2000 election, kick W's ass back to Texas where it belongs!  

What I want to know is, how did Barnabas cope once he's cured!  How did he shower, eat, do his laundry etc...and I'm talking BEFORE they bring Willie back from Wyndcliff.  And once they did, did Willie have to boil hot water for their bath's?  I have this amusing image of Barnabas' very first SHOWER at Collinwood when he's there taking care of the family in 1968 when Roger goes away on an extended business trip and asks B to "look after the family" (I LOVE that scene btw, when R asks him, B looks so *honored* that R is entrusting the family's welfare to him, and he takes it seriously by MOVING IN to the Great House!).

Anyway, back to the shower, that's a scene I'd love to have seen, B running to tell Julia how "glorious" it felt to take a shower w/the hot water streaming down his body etc...LOL! 

[PennyDreadful]

PD------ I was asking whether you like BC on a personal level, actually, or just appreciate him as a dramatic character. 

 I think he was, more or less, a nice guy before the curse.  When he's not under the curse he's generally (though not always) a nicer individual.