Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0873  (Read 660 times)

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Discuss - Ep #0873
« on: January 29, 2015, 04:50:06 PM »
Robservations #873

And if you'd care to look back, the first WP discussion topic for this ep:
Re: Discuss - Ep #0873

Offline Joeytrom

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0873
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 05:02:56 PM »
Not sure on the writers point of view, but is it possible that the Leviathan storyline actually starts with the arrival of Kitty?  Separate from the rest of the 1897 storylines.

[spoiler]1897 ends with Kitty drawn to Josette's portrait just as Barnabas enters the room so this could have been a setup to get things in place. [/spoiler]

Offline dom

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0873
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2015, 05:40:22 PM »
That is my opinion too. The arrival of Kitty portends Leviathans for me.

Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0873
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 08:38:56 PM »
Honestly, I hadn't thought of it this way before, but I'm afraid you're both right.  [snow_rolleyes]

We begin to see a couple of major switches in this ep, yay!

Meanwhile, Beth brings Selbtofi back from the future. He realizes they have to find the painting or bust. Somehow just being with Selbtofi makes Beth very mean to Pansity. But Pansity holds her own and gets away from him, ha ha ha!

Barnabas is awfully pushy with his Josette-reincarnation stuff, isn't he?

Pansity has a very nice, blurry-around-the-edges dream sequence in which she waltzes in Quentin's arms while he sings (yes, sings!) a bit of her song. But it's not so nice Quentin turns into Petofi.

Desperate to find the portrait, Selbtofi needles Barnabas about how nice it is to live in the sunlight and waves the Hand around menacingly as he threatens to force Barn to reveal where the painting is--even though Barnabas doesn't know.

Kitty comes to the old mill and asks QThayer to use the hand to help her. When I think of the things I saw you do in England-- Do you remember the game we played one evening? You would raise your Hand, and whoever it touched had to tell the truth. I saw my husband, Gerald, say things I had never known. [But Petofi did not have his hand then--he spent a hundred years seeking it.] I have to know the truth about myself, she says urgently. That is all I’m asking. What will it cost you? Nothing. But I’ll even give you the last of my jewelry. QPetofi, who has avoided looking at her, sadly shakes his head. I won’t leave until you help me, Kitty insists.

PQuentin tells Barnabas, Your time is up. I don’t know where the painting is, Barnabas insists. What a silly man you are, PQuentin comments. Surely you can’t be without fear. You know too much about life--or you should, since you’ve lived for so long. You must know the prices men are sometimes forced to pay. He raises the Hand and wonders, What will it be? Death? No, he decides, that’s much too simple. You should become what you were. Yes, that is far more interesting. He laughs, relishing the thought: You shall become the bat again--hiding from the day; unable to speak; screaming at the darkness. He raises the Hand. Do you feel yourself beginning to change, Barnabas? he asks tauntingly. You should--because it’s going to happen very soon. Your arms will begin to feel heavy, he promises. Then your body will be filled with excruciating pain. You will become what you were, that loathsome bird of the night--now! Barnabas makes no move to get away as PQuentin puts the Hand on the side of his head.

But nothing happens, and after a moment Barnabas turns to smile at PQuentin. Your power--what has happened to your power, Count Petofi? he asks mildly. PQuentin examines the suddenly useless Hand in consternation.

Meanwhile, QPetofi has apparently decided. He touches his own cheek with the Hand as he says, Let this woman see the truth. Let her see who she really is. Do not spare her. Let her see. He touches Kitty’s cheek. She reacts instantly and turns away in shock. No, no, he was right, she murmurs as Josette’s theme starts up. Barnabas was right--I am Josette duPres. I remember everything now. I am Josette duPres--but I am also Kitty Soames! Meanwhile, QPetofi stares down at the Hand, smiling in utter amazement.....




Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0873
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 03:01:45 AM »
Nancy Barrett VO.  Selbtofi walking into the same old Collinwood foyer as usual is made into an amazing, unearthly experience, because we know it's not his time! ... though for us, it was regular old 1969.  They get away with a lot with sets and writing and mood.  Then he's on the floor of the Lair.  Does Beth wonder why they had to do the trance there?  He vents rage on her for bringing him back, not listening about the theft of the painting.  I've forgotten if we're supposed to know who took it.

Beth, surprisingly, knows that new Barnabas is old Barnabas.  "Barnabas has always been your friend!!"  Huh?!

Note how Barnabas is able to pull off his great, big comeback stunt perfectly... while being utterly clueless and failing at part two, dealing with the woman he wants.  Maybe he was "flushed with success", whatever that expression really means...  He might have lapsed into autopilot, feeling (understandably) that the really hard part was now done, and that the rest was going to be "normal" and easy.  But he should have gone to as much trouble with planning part two, as he did on part one.  With a reincarnation for the sake of love under his belt (his own "reincarnation" I mean), Josette, cough, Kitty, should have fallen into his arms like a great big domino, it probably seemed.  All that remained was dotting i's and crossing t's...?  (Doesn't this sound like Tate assuming Amanda would love him, because he made her, and therefore owned her?)

The disturbing part is that it all clearly strikes Barnabas as a legitimate, morally clean version of the 1967 Maggie brainwashing, which he claims he is now horrified by, at the thought of having done it.  "Those first few horrible months at Collinwood", I think he called them after he "reformed", whenever that was, if it indeed ever happened.  He still thinks she can just let herself be Josette, losing Kitty's identity like a moth-eaten old coat nobody wants, and since she's Josette's reincarnation, it makes "sense" now...?!

Part of the problem is that they're fuzzy about the very concept of reincarnation.  If someone is reincarnated, s/he is the same single person, the two or more incarnations being the same being, at different points of that one person's existence.  Josette has turned into Kitty by being reborn.  That's who Josette is, now.  There's no other spirit floating around the ether, called Josette, wanting to gobble up Kitty's soul. 

There is, though-- basically the ghost of Josette wants to take over Kitty's body on the apparently incoherent and meaningless pretext that Kitty is her "reincarnation".  Barnabas gets to say "You'll be happier as Josette!!" to Kitty, with no guilt or sense of his own creepiness.

Yet Josette's been issuing warnings too.  Very confusing.

I like how you were a lot more concise about it DL... "Barnabas is awfully pushy with his Josette-reincarnation stuff, isn't he?"  That's all I needed to say, maybe...

Selbtofi and old/new Barnabas face off, knowing they can afford to reveal selves to each other.  I like scenes like that.  Vicki assuring Laura "Soon we shall know everything" comes to mind.  The Hand is used to revamp Barnabas, only not really... it seems Selbtofi wants Barnabas to become a bat and a bat only, no human form, though he calls the state "what you were".  It fails, and Barnabas catches on in a nanosecond, gloating about Petofi's failure.  It's as if he knew ahead of time, but I'm pretty sure he didn't.  Mr. Frid did though, and that's probably it... I'd have liked a bit of bracing against dread... ThayerQ finds the Hand's power returning to him!  End.

(DL-- Petofi changed the Collins family one by one, making them see the "truth" about themselves, before regaining the Hand, too...  About Barnabas having lived so long, as Selbtofi says... I like to think of him that way, but he was in his 30s when chained I guess, and his experience with life only goes a couple years past that...)
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Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0873
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 05:52:36 PM »
All very good points, MT! When I first saw this part of the story, I thought the whole reincarnation plot line was at least somewhat romantic, but now it seems like just a retread of the Maggie-kidnapping affair, only creepier.

Regarding Petofi's Hand, I guess he still had enough power without it when he was living with the Soamses and when he first came to Collinwood that he could reveal the truth about everyone. Or else it's just a bigger than usual writer goof.


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Re: Discuss - Ep #0873
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 10:07:15 AM »
Petofi had a lot of power when he showed up in Collinsport.  I'm not sure I've really noticed a large increase in his powers after having gotten the Hand back.  They all act as if he's much more powerful, but I'm not sure he can do more.
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