DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: Bobubas on February 28, 2003, 03:57:24 PM
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Hi Again All,
I don't get to spend as much time on the Forum as I used to, and have not had a chance to read "All' the post here, so forgive me if this question has already been asked and answered.
Although I'm sure they have been present for some time, today was the first I noticed the applaud/smite icons on the individual post. I clicked on the smite icon and noticed it added a number to the already exisiting total of said post, and then clicked the applaud icon and it did the same thing. I did not know the true meaning of what smite meant till I looked it up.
My question is: What possible redeeming quality can there be to subjecting fellow posters to cyber-smiting? According to Webster's, "smite" is defined as to hit or strike hard, especially so as to kill or destroy.
This is just my opinion, but I feel there is no place for "smiting" in every day society, let alone on a Dark Shadows message board.
I personally know a couple of the Moderators on this board, and I know they would NEVER condone the berating of fellow board members here, but in a not so subtle way, this feature in essence gives one that ability. I would ask these same organizers to give very serious consideration to the removal of this potentially detrimental feature. Nothing positive can come out of having this feature present, so why risk hurting the feeling of fellow posters? Thanks,
Bob
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I agree with Bob.
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You know, I read about this topic over in the Testing 1, 2, 3 section and I just don't agree that it's a harmless bit of fun, as was opined there.
Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but it seems to me like an invitation to hurt feelings and dissent among forum members. This board can sometimes be a bit clannish. I think the applaud and smite aspect just adds to that factor.
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Sorry for the delay in answering, but I had to run off to hang at my kid's school for a while...
The feedback I've received concerning the karma feature has cut both ways. Some find it amusing while others are skeptical about it, and like Bob a few others have requested we take it down. I can't speak for the creator of the karma mod except that he has said (see threads on the karma feature in Testing 1, 2, 3) it was created for fun. I've seen far too numerous incidents of posters attacking each other using words and of course we never condone that, yet while I recognize that the karma feature has inspired strong feelings in some I still contend that it shouldn't be taken too seriously and merely allows some posters to give comments a thumbs up or a thumbs down. [Smite] is just a link that posters can push and there's no intent for it to compare to the harsh words some internet posters occasionally like to sling at each other on the many DS venues. My feeling is that the words used against each other are very powerful and far more damaging than any YaBB mod can ever be. On the subject of words, if your problem is with the term "smite", I thought it was amusing but it can be changed, just please don't ask that we do it right now or send suggestions for us to consider cuz we're swamped with requests and questions regarding this new version.
I hear you, Cassandra Blair, and you're not the only person that has said it at one time or another, but I honestly don't understand the feeling that the forums are a bit clannish. Everyone is welcome [within the sole limitation of bandwidth, argh!], posting is always encouraged, the guidelines are enforced across the board, and I don't know of any incident of a group ganging up on any individual. I sincerely hope no one is smiting because they dislike or have an axe to grind with any one person.
Thank you for your feedback, and please understand that all MB, Dom and I are asking is that the feature be given a chance.
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Sorry for the delay in answering, but I had to run off to hang at my kid's school for a while...
use the word 'hanging' in a sentence : 'David is hanging in the closet'
On the subject of words, if your problem is with the term "smite", I thought it was amusing but it can be changed
how about 'Bite'?
I have a very thick skin [and can be read as 'don't care' ]but there are some folks that take things like that very personally, so I wouldn't be too sad to lose it either. I always come here for the laughs and to learn more about the show [like on the great history of Petofi thread!] so if that is gonna wreck the train to Collinsport - put it back int the foundling home!
but I do wonder who were the two weasles are that caused my minus 2 rating! ;) ;) ;)
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Thank you for your feedback, and please understand that all MB, Dom and I are asking is that the feature be given a chance.
Just out of curiosity, how long is the trial period for the feature going to last?
I don't care for it myself. I've always considered this board to be a very friendly place, but seeing the recent number of smites on the board have made me uncomfortable. Even though some have confessed that they're only doing it as a joke, there's no way to tell whether or not the smiting was intended to be serious. Also, as far as I can tell, these tallies endure. Unlike an AIM warning level, for instance, which can decline with time, 30 smites is 30 smites from now on. Future newcomers may view such a rating seriously and unfairly look askance at particular posters who may have simply been the target of a prank. Furthermore, not everybody has the ability to applaud or smite, yet are vulnerable to the applause and smites of others. This doesn't seem fair.
That said, I do enjoy being able to applaud a friend who's made a particularly witty or insightful remark. Not to add to the workload of the moderators or try to tell them how to do their jobs (I think they do splendidly as it is,) but I wonder if it might be possible to try an alternative if the applauding/smiting is determined to be a serious problem. While browsing other boards on the Internet, I've seen a feature called 'Rate this Topic.' I imagine it's similar to applaud/smite, but pertains to posts rather than posters. I'd rather think that people were smiting my message than smiting me personally. :-
ProfStokes
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but I do wonder who were the two weasles are that caused my minus 2 rating! ;) ;) ;)
Probably someone without a sense of humor...IMHO ::) :) ;)
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Just out of curiosity, how long is the trial period for the feature going to last?
I have no idea, sorry.
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The feedback I've received concerning the karma feature has cut both ways. Some find it amusing while others are skeptical about it, and like Bob a few others have requested we take it down
As I stated in my original post, I just feel there is no redeeming qualities this feature offers, so why risk the feelings of our fellow board members. Regardless of the mod creators intent, the feature is obviously ambiguous and esoteric when attempting to define it, and for that reason alone it should be removed so that there is no confusion.
I think ProfStokes made some excellent points when she defined some of the other faults of this mod. And although Ringo was only kidding about wondering who it was that gave him the two smites he mentioned in his post, I'm sure it weighs on his mind as to what he might have said or done to receive them, and who they were from.
If the Moderators on this forum really feel it is a harmless feature created for fun, then what harm would it bring to allow everyone to see who is smiting them? I've a feeling if people were publicly held accountable for "smiting" instead of being able to do it in secret, they might think twice or three times ;D before clicking that button.
Again, this is only my feeling and I really don't want to harp on it any further, but, as Midnite mentioned in her reply,(and let me add I have nothing but the utmost respect for Midnite & MB and their opinions) if more then a couple people have expressed concern about it, then I think it should be addressed. OK , that is my last word on this subject. :) :) Bob
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If the Moderators on this forum really feel it is a harmless feature created for fun, then what harm would it bring to allow everyone to see who is smiting them?
We have nothing to do with that; the karma feature came with with YaBB SE and the anonymity is inherent. Its writer felt that removing the anonymity would have made it less fun.
I've a feeling if people were publicly held accountable for "smiting" instead of being able to do it in secret, they might think twice or three times ;D before clicking that button.
I believe that's his point exactly. This feature is not at all about public accountability; it's about having a little fun.
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Bobubas and Prof. Stokes put things much more eloquently than I ever could, but I agree with what they said, Midnite - as much as I respect your opinion and how hard you work for this site (it's WAY appreciated).
Also - didn't mean to imply that I believe the forum rules are not enforced, or that people are ganged up on here (that is SO not the case). Just that so many of the folks who've been on the boards awhile seem to know each other really well and that can be a little intimidating to newbies. The Karma feature might make some folks feel a little uneasy/queasy when stating what may not be the most popular opinion. ???
I've said my peace on this subject, though. Thanks for listening! :)
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Just out of curiosity, how long is the trial period for the feature going to last?
I have no idea, sorry.
The reason we have no idea is because this system is as new to us as it is to you. When we officially launched dsboards.com a year ago today (Yay! Happy Birthday to us!! - But I digress... :)) we'd had more than a month to familiarize ourselves with the system, make changes and add features before anyone else had a chance to use anything. However, with this change to YaBB SE, we didn't have the luxury of time to learn because the change was thrust upon us by our host. SP was Perl based, a computer language that I knew. SE is PHP/MySQL based, a language and database that I know very little about. Since launching this version a little less than two weeks ago, I've gotten several books on the subject, and the good thing is that PHP is very similar to Perl and other computer languages that I'm very familair with - but it also has it's differences. And until I'm able to get up to speed, I'm not going to be able to tweak the system like I was able to with the SP version. You all just have to be patient because, believe me, no wants me to be as proficient with PHP as I was with Perl than I do. ;)
That having been said, though, I was able to change a few things about the Karma feature that the forum's preferences and settings allows us to change. Instead of displaying both totals, now it displays the difference between the two. In other words, rather than showing +20/-12, it shows 8. And I've also changed applaud/smite to cure/curse, which is probably more befitting DS. But that's about as much as I can do at this time...
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didn't mean to imply that I believe the forum rules are not enforced, or that people are ganged up on here (that is SO not the case). Just that so many of the folks who've been on the boards awhile seem to know each other really well and that can be a little intimidating to newbies.
I know this might be easier said than done, but please don't be intimidated. Everyone who regularly posts on the forum was a newbie at some time or other on the different online DS venues where we've met each other. But while it's true that many of us have been spending time with each other online for several years, it's also true that many of the people who we're now friendly with on the forum have been around for a year or less. The thing is they didn't let their newbieness prevent them from just jumping in and joining the discussions, and in no time it was as if we'd known them for years. Sure, it can sometimes be scary to take that first, second or even third step. But we love it when new people show up because they usually bring fresh ideas and fresh perspectives with them, and that only makes the discussions more interesting and that much more lively. :)
The Karma feature might make some folks feel a little uneasy/queasy when stating what may not be the most popular opinion. ???
Well, all I can say to that is that if someone has a strong opinion about something, please don't be afraid to state it. This forum was specifically created so that any DS fan could feel comfortable knowing that they wouldn't be chewed up and spit out simply for saying something that might be a bit controversial (which most definitely isn't the case on some other DS venues :(). Sure, people will disagree. But isn't healthy debate the fun of having strong opinions? At least that's the way I've always looked at. And if you think your Karma total goes down because of something you might have said about DS, well, that certainly doesn't mean that you didn't have as much right to your opinion as anyone else did. Think of it as a badge of honor that shows the rest of us that you're not afraid to be an individual. ;)
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I also concur...don't care for it...
and I give everyone here an applaud.
Patti
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I think Bob makes good points, and in fact I reluctantly smote him with a cure point. ;D I'm sure the intention of the thing is just fun, and I don't see it being an issue significant enough to stop someone posting here unless they're way too sensitive. But I personally don't have much use for the feature; if I agree or disagree strongly enough with an issue, I'll take the time to post about it and not bother bumping someone's karma up or down. Without a quantitative point breakdown (positive or negative), the number means nothing; high karma only indicates that someone has made a lot of posts. Low karma may mean the poster hasn't been on the boards very much, like me; it says absolutely nothing about whether people's opinions of his or her posts are positive or negative. Thus, its value is inherently moot.
It wasn't me, Ringo, honest!
--Mark
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I personally don't have much use for the feature; if I agree or disagree strongly enough with an issue, I'll take the time to post about it and not bother bumping someone's karma up or down. Without a quantitative point breakdown (positive or negative), the number means nothing
Well, I'm sure that several features on the forum will appeal to some while others may have no use for them. That's always going to be a given. And as we've said, if someone doesn't see a need for a particular feature, then it's perfectly within their rights to ignore it. ;)
Also, you've made an excellent point concerning the quantitative breakdown of points, so the actual cure/curse totals are now back on display - and back they will stay. I'm sure your fellow posters will thank you for making me see the light. Just what was I thinking last night?...
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:-* Since we are all giving our opinion, I will chime in. I don't care for it either. At first, I thought, the cure/applause/whatever would be OK. Then when I thought about it, it seemed like high school with the popular pair getting the most points and being voted the homecoming king and queen! And the negative curse, I can live without most happily. I can see how it could be thought of as fun and it isn't like I won't post if they have it here, but it isn't a feature that I find appealing.
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:-* Since we are all giving our opinion, I will chime in. I don't care for it either.
Hey Kuanyin, Where ya been? It's nice to see you back here again! :)
Cassandra[/font]
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Well, I'm sure that several features on the forum will appeal to some while others may have no use for them. That's always going to be a given. And as we've said, if someone doesn't see a need for a particular feature, then it's perfectly within their rights to ignore it. ;)
How can a person ignore it when it appears in EVERY post they create and they can see the tally?
As I stated initially, the feature is ambiguous in nature, and it should just be removed completely. It is obvious from the responses this thread has received that several posters are not comfortable with it.
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How can a person ignore it when it appears in EVERY post they create and they can see the tally?
Well, perhaps I and others just have an easier time ignoring things than others might. For example, when I was in school, I could easily tune out fellow students who were goofing around next to me and concentrate on whatever work I might have been trying to do (this worked really well whenever I was in the library ;)). And if anyone were to ask me afterward what those other students had been up to, I could honestly say that I really had no idea. So, too, I can easily read the contents of posts without so much as a glance to most of the info that's shown on the left side of the message listings. I look at the name of the poster at the top and that's about it. :)
It is obvious from the responses this thread has received that several posters are not comfortable with it.
You could easily get that impression from what's been posted in this thread. However, if you reread over what Midnite has written, you'll see that opinion regarding the Karma feature is split. In fact, more people have e-mailed/IM'd their support for the feature than have complained about it. Why have they e-mailed/IM'd rather than posted? Well, I can only assume that they, like a certain person who'd claimed that he didn't want to harp on this issue any further, actually don't want to drag out the discussion any more than it already has been. It might also be that they're somewhat afraid that by posting their support for the Karma feature they might invite people to harp on them. Just a thought...
As I stated initially, the feature is ambiguous in nature, and it should just be removed completely.
Ordinarily, I would never be this confrontational on the forum because it has always been our policy that everyone's opinion is equally valid. However, since you seem to feel that your opinion counts more than even that of the Administrators/Moderators of the forum, I must say that I feel the need to be equally as blunt. When you have your own forum, Bob, you can dictate what should or should not be removed completely from it. However, this is not your forum, Bob. So, please confine yourself to expressing opinions rather than making dictatorial statements.
I might also remind you that I made a point of saying that until I'm able to get up to speed on PHP, I'm not going to be able to tweak the system like I was able to with the SP version - and I politely asked that everyone please be patient until that time. So, the fact of the matter is that we couldn't remove the Karma feature now even if we wanted to because we simply don't know how to at this time.
So, be that as it may, you can of course feel free to come back and continue to drag out the discussion like a petulant child who isn't getting his/her way. However, this really is my last statement on the subject. And I deeply and profusely apologize to the other members of the forum for having to resort to making a post such as this one...
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So, that having been said, you can of course feel free to come back and continue to drag out the discussion like a petulant child who isn't getting his/her way. However, this really is my last statement on the subject. And I deeply and profusely apologize to the other members of the forum for having to have resorted to making a post such as this one...
So, this HEALTHYdiscussion has digressed to the point of you publicly calling me names? If you had taken the time to reread my post before replying you will have noted that I did not DEMAND the mod be taken away, I simply stated that it SHOULD.....that is SHOULD..... be taken away. I thought we were all entitled to our opinions on this board without worry of being ATTACKED, as you just verbally attacked me? Or does that only apply to the Tribunal of Moderators? Knowing you personally as I do, I'm very disappointed you chose to publicly do what you did. Bob
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Knowing you personally as I do, I'm very disappointed you chose to publicly do what you did.
Sadly, Bob, I feel that you left me no choice - particularly considering that it's stated in a few different places on the forum that the Karma feature could just as easily be a temporary feature as a permanent one - and most importantly, considering I've made it quite clear that nothing can be done about it at this time, so continuing to press your point (despite your previous statement to the contrary) was uncalled for at this juncture...
If you think I've over reacted, well, I'm sorry. But, unfortunately, I don't see it that way. There's a fine line between healthy debate and pounding an issue beyond that point. :(
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Knowing you personally as I do, I'm very disappointed you chose to publicly do what you did.
Sadly, Bob, I feel that you left me no choice...
Well, I have certainly been put in my place. In the future I will refrain from engaging in any potentially controversial subjects.
I would like to apologize to any board members who have not enjoyed this debate. I really would have liked to have limited my thoughts about the mod to one or two post, but I felt the need to respond to some of the replies that followed them. Needless to say, I feel very strongly about my feelings in regards to this feature, but not to the point where I want to subject myself or others to public ridicule. I don't harbor ill feeling for MB, I like MB, I just don't agree with him on this subject, or how he chose to publicly handle it. But like he said, this is NOT my forum, and I want to say I never felt like it was personally mine, but I did think of it as "OUR" forum. Yours, mine, and anyone elses who come here to post. By nature I would not consider myself a troublemaker. Take a look at my past 170 some post over the past few years prior to this discussion, and you would be hard pressed to find a single post where I "rocked" the boat about any subject. Anyway, It is still my "opinion" that this is the best(and safest) place on the internet to discuss Dark Shadows,(with the most knowledgable of fans around) so I hope we can get back to doing just that. :)
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I don't harbor ill feeling for MB, I like MB, I just don't agree with him on this subject, or how he chose to publicly handle it.
Believe me, Bob, no one is sadder about what has happened in this topic than I am...
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If I may....I'd like to suggest a diplomatic solution to this current disagreement.
First let me get the sitch straight. There are folks that are unhappy with the karma feature, some who could care less, and those who think it's harmless fun.
MB has no power to eliminate the feature due to whatever technical hijinks that Yabb has set up this feature. Tho tweekness may come at a later date.
Well my idea for a solution is this. If MB could set up one of those wonderful anonymous polls whereby forum members can click a yay or nay vote (and only get one vote) that would be a start. And a time limit would be good too.
Then when the ability to tweek or remove the feature is available, refer to the outcome of said poll and follow the wishes of forum members.
I think that all would agree then, that democracy would have been achieved as to this matter, and would abide by the decision with a mature and graceful attitude.
On a personal note....
This year marks my fourth year in DS fandom. I don't think I've ever been involved with a group of people more intelligient, creative and caring than this group! I've met some best and lifelong friends in this group and feel extremely blessed that my rediscovery of DS back in '99 led me to y'all. I deeply and firmly believe that our friendships are way more valuable than a karma feature on a message board. So let's all shake hands, hug, buy each other a few drinks or whatever it takes, and when the time comes put this evil baby to bed and resume our friendships!
And that's all I have to say about that.
{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}} Love you guys!!!!!!!
Always, Minja
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MB added tons of upgrades to the last version of the forums. These included additional smilies and colors, backcolor, overcolor, polls, buttons, IM preferences, invisibility, viewing new posts... I could go on and on, and we miss them too. We ask for the patience of all cousins while MB becomes more proficient at PHP before he starts adding or subtracting features to the forum. I wish I could help him, but I'm still at the most basic level of tutorial for PHP forums-- sort of a "PHP for Dummies". ;)
Speaking from the heart, I became uncomfortable over certain comments made in this topic and I must say I feel the same about the idea of using a poll to determine how this situation will be handled. This is most definitely a cohesive and supportive group, and we recognize that input is invaluable, but MB, Dom and I are the only persons that are privy to all developments regarding the forums, most of which occur behind the scenes, and we hope to continue to enjoy your trust that we'll go on administering the forum to the best of our judgment and also be allowed to set our own priorities. Thanks.
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This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a long time. If you read it carefully, you'll find it a fascinating study in contradiction, the frailty of the human ego and a rich example of hypocrisy on many different levels. (And all packed into one little thread!)
Gosh
-CLC (not afraid to voice an opinion because....and I quote from a previous post:)
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"Well, all I can say to that is that if someone has a strong opinion about something, please don't be afraid to state it. This forum was specifically created so that any DS fan could feel comfortable knowing that they wouldn't be chewed up and spit out simply for saying something that might be a bit controversial (which most definitely isn't the case on some other DS venues )."
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This topic is turning into a Sunday afternoon at the Coliseum--the thumbs up or thumbs down routine by the Roman emperor. Raise your shields and may the best man/woman win but first get in a few jabs at your friend/opponent just to keep things interesting.
Since everything is filed away in our brain for future use, will we someday run into each other at a DSFest and will we decide whether we want to be friends with this person because our brain has remembered: "Ah ha...he/she is the one with 99 million applauds/smites. Maybe I will/won't like this person because he/she has a tendency to be agreeable/ disagreeable." It's human nature to wonder if it applies.
It just seems as though members are getting "labeled" for their opinions and, in this day & age, it's just wrong to form an assumption of someone based on their cures/curses. Not everyone can look at their "rating" and say "it doesn't mean anything--I don't care" but someone else may feel just the opposite and take it to heart.
I've enjoyed this site since I found it several years ago under its old name and stayed a lurker for most of it. Let's just keep it a fun place to be instead of saying,
"A Funny Thing Happened to me when I got to the Forum."
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i also have been posting for about 4 years(?) ;D
wow that long!and while i have seen disagreements here
(some where people have been hurt) :'( .
i have to say that there are a wonderful group of fans here whom i hope someday to meet. at the end of a long stressful day i love to come here and have a few laughs!
i have seen most of the disagreements ironed out and hate to see a silly little thing make people so upset. i also like the poll idea and understand that MB is working hard to solve the problems. Thanks again ! :)
(with Minja love you guys!)
jennifer
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This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a long time. If you read it carefully, you'll find it a fascinating study in contradiction, the frailty of the human ego and a rich example of hypocrisy on many different levels. (And all packed into one little thread!)
Gosh
-CLC (not afraid to voice an opinion because....and I quote from a previous post:)
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"Well, all I can say to that is that if someone has a strong opinion about something, please don't be afraid to state it. This forum was specifically created so that any DS fan could feel comfortable knowing that they wouldn't be chewed up and spit out simply for saying something that might be a bit controversial (which most definitely isn't the case on some other DS venues )."
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No one said that an opinion can't be stated. No one is trying to make anybody afraid to state an opinion. There's a vast difference between listening to feedback and dropping everything to do what we're not even capable of doing simply because one person repeatedly tells us we should be doing it. And that doesn't make us hypocrites. Connie, all that we asked of Bob, and everyone else, is that we be allowed to run the forum just as we've been running it since it was created over 4 years ago.
It's no secret that you have a problem with my decision-making because you've been quite verbal about it, and I've listened to every single argument you've offered concerning why you feel I didn't handle a situation to your liking. Just because I didn't change my mind based on your arguments doesn't mean I didn't hear you, or that your voice doesn't count, cuz it does-- your opinion matters to me, period.
Yet after you objected to the most recent discussion between us you offered to take it to private correspondence, which I thought was an excellent idea. Obviously you still have issues with how the forum is being run but instead of ever contacting me, or MB, you continue to bring it here so now I'm asking you to take it off the forum.
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Oh, dear, my first two smites! Should I be alarmed? :'(
or happy? ;D
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??? I was probably a late-comer when this board reopened; so I'm not real sure how the karma thing works. However, upon reading all comments and getting some understanding from them, I agree that it serves no purpose and can be upsetting for some. Everyone doesn't look at the world the same way!
Misty
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I know I certainly don't decide what I will or will not watch, or who I will or will not listen to or read based on a critic's review. I think if that were the case for people here, they would not be watching DS. The show was hardly a critic's dream but people have nonetheless watched it faithfully for decades, and as stated here, continue to do so even when spouses and family members make fun of them. If you are in that position and have developed a thick skin over those issues, why let a stranger bother you?
I prefer to think for myself and more times than not, I have come to a different conclusion about a production or a post here than the critic. The reason for this is that I do not know what the critic is using for as criteria in judging a movie, a play, or in this case, someone's post. It might be some old personal score that ignites the smite button, it might some disdain for a particular subject that has nothing to do with the poster, it could be anything. When I click on a post here, I don't even look at the "tally" - I have clicked on it for the subject and in most cases I don't even pay attention to who posted it until after I've read the post. I prefer to decide for myself whether or not I place any merit in what the person has said rather than to depend on the opinion of others who are strangers to me and, as I said, have other reasons for not liking a post.
My own view on the matter is to remember this is a fan forum for a television show. There are enough real world problems that face us now, and stand to directly impact us strongly than to worry whether or not someone likes the subject being posted or not. I'm sorry that it has upset some people as much as it has though. I don't like popularity contests myself, but the moderators here have explained why they can and cannot do certain things at this time and I think that is explanation enough. I personally can't get upset over it either way because it doesn't seem important in the scheme of things. I really can't worry about some stranger liking or not liking my post. Obviously, I would prefer that anyone who reads it does since they already spent their time reading the thing in the first place. If someone wants to smite me to settle some personal score, I hope it makes them feel better about themselves. Then it has served a useful purpose since everyone should definitely feel good about themselves. :-* Otherwise, if someone likes or dislikes my post or someone elses, that doesn't stop me from posting or reading the opinion of an oft-smited person or meeting that individual in some social setting later. Like I said, I prefer to make my own decisions about people and what I read.
If I don't like a feature on this forum, I just don't use it.
Nancy
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My own view on the matter is to remember this is a fan forum for a television show. There are enough real world problems that face us now, and stand to directly impact us strongly than to worry whether or not someone likes the subject being posted or not.
Hear hear, Nancy.
--Mark
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This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a long time. If you read it carefully, you'll find it a fascinating study in contradiction, the frailty of the human ego and a rich example of hypocrisy on many different levels. (And all packed into one little thread!)
Gosh
-CLC (not afraid to voice an opinion because....and I quote from a previous post:)
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"Well, all I can say to that is that if someone has a strong opinion about something, please don't be afraid to state it. This forum was specifically created so that any DS fan could feel comfortable knowing that they wouldn't be chewed up and spit out simply for saying something that might be a bit controversial (which most definitely isn't the case on some other DS venues )."
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If we may, let's give this situation a slight perspective shift:
First off, let me state for the record that what I'm about to say is in no way intended to be construed as a Poor-Me-I'm-So-Misunderstood-Speech. I'll leave that tack to others who have already turned it into a fine art that I couldn't hope to compete with.
So, anyway, sometimes it seems as if there are people here who believe I'm some sort of computer god, at once all knowing and all powerful, who should be able to understand and immediately be able to resolve any and every problem that might occur, not only on the forum, but on the Internet at large. And while that can be flaterring, nothing could be further from the truth - no one could live up to that expectation. Add to that the fact that not one day has passed since the forum changed over from SP to SE that I haven't come here or opened e-mails or IMs to find multiple instances of people asking or outright complaining about the change. Why is this such and such? Why can't I do this? Where did that go? My head starts spinning with so many things that I'd like to change for them - as well as for Midnite, Dom and myself - but I can't because I just know how to yet. But no one wants to hear or understand my frustration that I don't know PHP/MySQL the way I knew Perl. They don't want to hear that internally SE is just SO different from SP. They don't want to see that this is a completely different set of circumstances than last year when we had more than a month to sort the system out before people arrived and began using it. They don't want to know that trying to sort everything out while people are already using it is difficult at best. They don't want to understand that this change was not something Midnite, Dom and I wanted- but is something that we had to do to keep the forum up and active. They want things the way they were (or at least back as close as possible to the way they were) - or they want them gone entirely - and they want it now. And that makes it even more frustrating for me because no one wants me to be able to tweak this system as easily I was able to with the past one more than I do. And under all that, I finally snapped. But as anyone who has been around these forums for the past 5 years can also attest, I can honestly say that in the 5 years since Midnite and I started these forums, I've never once done what I did last night. If anyone thinks I took any pleasure out of what happened in this topic, you're sadly mistaken - I'm embarrassed, I'm apologetic, I'm mortified that things took that turn. But I'm also only human.
As for you, Connie - to take my comments out of context is not only disingenuous, it's also cunning and manipulative because it completely disregards not only the circumstances under which they were made, but it applies them to a set of circumstance that are about as far removed from their original context as they could possibly be...
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Hello MB and Midnite,
MB:
I understood exactly what happened in the dialogue. Bob felt passionately about something, kept pressing, and you blew. It's as simple as that. You're very busy, you work hard on here, you've got people at you wanting this and that. A totally natural human reaction.
Midnite:
Your posts are always comprehensive and eloquently written. You put a lot of thought and care into them. I haven't responded privately yet because I simply haven't had the time to gather my thoughts and express them properly. It takes me longer - I don't write as well you do. I've also been waiting for some sort of perspective to set in and anger to subside. The same thing happened to me the other day as happened to MB yesterday. I blew. Not only do I notice frustration in others, but also in myself and question why I feel or react in a certain way. Once again though, as has been happening to me all week, I logon here and never have the time to relax and think -- constant interruptions and having to be somewhere. I'm running late right now. I hope to get to you sometime late tonight.
Note: I suppose I shouldn't have posted in this thread but as far as hypocrisy goes, something that gets to me is seeing the view count hit the roof in a thread like this but seeing very few people post anything. So I said to myself. "Well, if you don't post anything, you're just as much a hypocrite as anyone else."
I have the utmost respect for BOTH of you. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here. And that's not bullshit.
-Connie
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Before anyone reads what they're about to here, please allow me to state emphatically that I do not make these revelations out of spite or anger. And I take no pleasure in this either. Under normal circumstances I would have dealt with this matter privately. However, given the way this topic has progressed, I sincerely believe everyone has the right to know exactly what has been going on...
As I stated initially, the feature is ambiguous in nature, and it should just be removed completely. It is obvious from the responses this thread has received that several posters are not comfortable with it.
Needless to say, I feel very strongly about my feelings in regards to this feature, but not to the point where I want to subject myself or others to public ridicule.
I'm puzzled. Are we to believe that after our little altercation last night, Bob, that these entries in the forum's error log seem to indicate that you came to the conclusion that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
Well, no, wait - the first error that you encountered trying to smite someone actually took place on March 1st at 02:55:01 AM CT - several hours before our altercation:
Bobubas : 152.163.189.134 : March 01, 2003, 08:55:01 AM
/yabbse/index.php?action=modifykarma;karmaAction=smite;uid=199
Sorry, you can't repeat an action within the wait time. You must wait 24 hours.
What might inspire a person so strong in their assurance that a particular feature is ambiguous and should be taken down to take part in that very same feature rather than to completely ignore the same?
Bobubas : 205.188.209.109 : March 02, 2003, 10:27:07 AM
/yabbse/index.php?action=modifykarma;karmaAction=applaud;uid=224
Sorry, you can't repeat an action within the wait time. You must wait 24 hours.
Bobubas : 205.188.209.105 : March 02, 2003, 12:12:22 PM
/yabbse/index.php?action=modifykarma;karmaAction=smite;uid=6
Sorry, you can't repeat an action within the wait time. You must wait 24 hours.
Bobubas : 205.188.209.137 : March 02, 2003, 05:27:05 PM
/yabbse/index.php?action=modifykarma;karmaAction=smite;uid=243
Sorry, you can't repeat an action within the wait time. You must wait 24 hours.
And these are the entries I just now happened to come across while checking the error log, as I do about every other day so I can keep apprised of the problems people are having on the forum with the hope of being able to address them once I'm up to speed. I wonder what I might find if I were to check the forum's access log?...
Knowing you personally as I do, Bob, I'm very disappointed you choose to publicly profess one opinion, while an entirely different one would appear to be the case...
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Well, no, wait - the first error that you encountered trying to smite someone actually took place on March 1st at 02:55:01 AM CT - several hours before our altercation:
Yep, and i even mentioned that i had tried the feature prior to posting about it. As far as using it after I'd posted, I sure did. I was upset with the smites I had received and reciprocated in such. See what i mean about how the feature can upset people?
Now lets address your behavior here Michael. You are in violation of everything this forums "supposed" guidelines stand for. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing what you have done here compromising the privacy of members. How many of the personal IM's have you been reading, and when can we expect them to show up on the boards. You have reached a new low. One I didn't think was possible with you. Congrats.
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What might inspire a person so strong in their assurance that a particular feature is ambiguous and should be taken down to take part in that very same feature rather than to completely ignore the same?
Michael, like I had said in a prior post, how is one supposed to ignore it when the tally is right there in each post for everyone to see? I tried to let this go yesterday and even gave the board itself my vote of confidence. But no, now, nearly 24 hours later, you had to throw yet more fuel on the fire. You have not only compromised your position of authority here with your invasion of privacy, you have compromised every ethical guideline this forum is supposed to be based on.
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You are in violation of everything this forums "supposed" guidelines stand for. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing what you have done here compromising the privacy of members. How many of the personal IM's have you been reading, and when can we expect them to show up on the boards. You have reached a new low. One I didn't think was possible with you. Congrats.
I'm honestly sorry you feel that way Bob. But there's nothing private about the forum's error log or the info it contains. And as for your IMs, I can assure you that I haven't read a one, nor am I even aware of the last time you've sent or received one. And even if I were, I can most definitely assure you that one or more would never be publicly posted on the forum.
I can certainly understand that you might feel that I've wronged you. But perhaps you should be channeling those feelings in a different direction...
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Connie, you left out the possibility that people who read the thread and do not post simply do not find it that important in the scheme of things. Too many people are facing or know someone who is facing unemployment, health problems, family issues or the apparent threat of war with Iraq directly impacts them. If you are someone looking at a discussion about the existence of a smite or applause button and have these other concerns hanging over your head, you can understand why they don't want to be bothered and feel it's not worth the investment of time or energy.
That's a good point, Nancy. And this may be off base, but I wonder how much external pressure might actually contribute to a certain amount of strife in here (and anyplace where people interact). Folks have come to feel that the DS board is a constant, comfortable place, and when it gets shaken up, it rattles people's nerves more than usual because it's just another thing that's changing and it's out of their control.
Or maybe not. But I know when I'm under stress, I sometimes react badly and take it out where I ought not to. These days, there is so much happening "out there"--to us personally and to people that we know and care about--and the fact that most of it is beyond our control can make you feel like there's a lead weight on your back. I don't like things that are beyond my control. I'd rather drive a car in blizzard over a sheet of ice than be somebody's passenger on a beautiful sunny day.
All I can control is how I react to things that I can't control. And sometimes, it's not as well as I like to think. These are the times that little, insignificant things (maybe like curses and cures to some people) look like great big roadblocks that have to be busted up RIGHT NOW.
Just a thought. And all of this is general and hypothetical. It's not aimed at a single individual in this place. If anyone takes it personally, I will curse the lot of you. No, I'll go one better. I'll call on Angelique (I have her phone number, you know), and we'll see how you like them apples.
--Mark
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I still am not sure I understand this stuff karma, smite, curse yadda yadda yadda stuff but I just came home from a great trip and read some of this thread and now I feel even more worn out. Maybe I should stick to the threads that don't require so much mental energy to read through.
I'm feeling pretty good about my karma right now so that is all that matters to me! :D
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That's a good point, Nancy. And this may be off base, but I wonder how much external pressure might actually contribute to a certain amount of strife in here (and anyplace where people interact). Folks have come to feel that the DS board is a constant, comfortable place, and when it gets shaken up, it rattles people's nerves more than usual because it's just another thing that's changing and it's out of their control.
Or maybe not. But I know when I'm under stress, I sometimes react badly and take it out where I ought not to. These days, there is so much happening "out there"--to us personally and to people that we know and care about--and the fact that most of it is beyond our control can make you feel like there's a lead weight on your back. I don't like things that are beyond my control. I'd rather drive a car in blizzard over a sheet of ice than be somebody's passenger on a beautiful sunny day.
--Mark
Mark, I was trying to hit quote and hit delete instead so my post you quoted from is now gone. Sorry.:(
I agree with you. Well said. But I guess that' why you're a writer. ;D
Nancy
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That's a good point, Nancy. And this may be off base, but I wonder how much external pressure might actually contribute to a certain amount of strife in here (and anyplace where people interact). Folks have come to feel that the DS board is a constant, comfortable place, and when it gets shaken up, it rattles people's nerves more than usual because it's just another thing that's changing and it's out of their control.
Or maybe not. But I know when I'm under stress, I sometimes react badly and take it out where I ought not to. These days, there is so much happening "out there"--to us personally and to people that we know and care about--and the fact that most of it is beyond our control can make you feel like there's a lead weight on your back. I don't like things that are beyond my control. I'd rather drive a car in blizzard over a sheet of ice than be somebody's passenger on a beautiful sunny day.
--Mark
Mark, I was trying to hit quote and hit delete instead so my post you quoted from is now gone. Sorry.:(
I agree with you. Well said. But I guess that' why you're a writer. ;D
Nancy
very well said also Nancy but have to add to Mark i did drive home a few weeks ago from work on a sheet of ice in a blizzard and told my husband(who drives like a manic hey this is Boston!) that for once i would rather have been been a passenger with him LOL! :o :o
jennifer
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i'm feeling this topic has degenerated to a slug fest instead of simply stating opinions regarding the karma feature.
as a fellow moderator, i am truly feeling for MB, Midnite and Dom at this point. it's difficult to learn new things, they don't work, it won't save it properly and it's now deleted, the ftp won't log in and you start over again. jez it can be a huge nightmare. it's enough to make a sane person tear out their hair.
i would like to suggest that we don't discuss this topic for awhile until as such time as MB has had a chance to get up to speed on the new software and server. if you don't like the karma feature, just don't use it! it's as simple as that.
if your karma has low or negative points, just ignore it for now and think of the person that did that just made a mistake and pressed the wrong button.
i'd also like to thank MB, Dom and Midnite. someone is paying for the web hosting here and it's not necessarily cheap as this group is known for overloading the bandwidth. i'm sure the benefactor is having to pay more for the host to allow more. also, i don't believe that MB, Dom or Midnite ever receive any compensation for their time. they bring this forum to us for free without pop ups or flashing ads. we are truly lucky to have them. they do this for the challenge of it and for fun. and it's not been fun lately and it should be again.
i am praying for peace in here now and that all make up and are friends again.
luv you all and especially our gracious hosts
your friend,
victoriawinters
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I have to say I am not crazy about it either.
Birdie
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And BTW....(and it's funny I'm replying on :D Birdie's :D thread)...a person can go to click on 'cure (or as it was applaud) and ACCIDENTALLY hit curse (or then spite)...
Birdie...honey...I accidentally did this to YOU :'( :'(
(the only thing to do in THIS instance is go back & cure, can't take away the curse).
So...for someone really watching their karma...SOME of the bad numbers could just be an accident.
(Birdie...please love me).
Patti...the spaz
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And BTW....(and it's funny I'm replying on :D Birdie's :D thread)...a person can go to click on 'cure (or as it was applaud) and ACCIDENTALLY hit curse (or then spite)...
Birdie...honey...I accidentally did this to YOU :'( :'(
(the only thing to do in THIS instance is go back & cure, can't take away the curse).
I thought the feature allowed you to change your mind within the 24 hour period (the writer says this in the FAQ) because even though you can't use the same link for the same person during the set time period, you can use the other link) so that's why I asked you to let me know if that didn't work. I can't tell by what you're saying if you saw my email in time or not, but no worry anyway cuz I just removed 1 of Birdie's curses.
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Patti Spazola, ;) (What a nice Italian name, LOL)
You'll have to cure Birdie twice to make up for one accidental curse.
PS - Thank goodness removing a curse here is a lot easier than removing a curse on DS! ;) <giggle>