Discuss - Ep #0836

[Watching Project]

Robservations #836

[alwaysdavid]

Amy is gone when the music starts in this episode set in the present day drawing room.  The 1897 bulbs are still there in the foyer.  Beth speaks in the present and reveals what she knows.  Terry Crawford seems to blow her lines.   The drawing room set seems to be part 1969 part 1897.  Beth plans suicide and Jamison interupts her and rejects Quentin  This would make sense if for some reason one believed that Jamison had a deep affection for Beth or perhaps even a crush on her.  Quentin crazily goes to the tower.  Why not go for help?  Then a very non ghostlike Quentin is at the present day Collinwood with David who dies. 

[IluvBarnabas]

Quentin's ghost did seem to lose a lot of his ghostly menace pre-1897. I guess that's to be expected considering how 1897 played out. In death, though, Quentin was every bit as selfish in death as he was in life. He doesn't care about killing a child, he just wants him with him in the afterlife. I know Quentin [spoiler] possessed Jamison after Jenny stuck a knife into him and yes, he did use the boy occasionally [/spoiler] but he never would have harmed Jamison. David resembles the
boy, yet Quentin had no qualms about causing him to die and claim him for all eternity.

I still have a hard time believing that even without Barnabas, Angelique would have been in 1897. What purpose would she have had? Her sole purpose in life was to snare/annoy/destroy Barnabas, without him, what fun would she have had?

I know Angelique does reveal some of her reasons later on, but I still can't buy it. Without Barnabas in the original storyline, Quentin would not have had to worry about Barnabas' scheming against him, and thus, no reason to summon Angelique in the first place. Of course, one has to wonder, in the original timeline, did Judith inherit Collinwood anyway, or did Edward? Or perhaps even Quentin, who ended up losing control one way or another? I'm getting a headache here...

I'm thinking it had to be another woman in the picture other than Angelique. Any ideas who it could be?

[EmeraldRose]

I don't have any idea who the other woman could be, except maybe Laura Collins. But all Laura wanted was to take her children with her when she "left" again, so I'm not so sure about that.

Major Milestones:
1. In 1969, Beth told Julia about the day that she killed Quentin and herself (September 10th). Most of this episode was a flashback to 1897 to tell Beth's story.
2. For the first time, Beth's ghost wore the same dress she wore in 1897. She wore a different dress before.
3. The first time Quentin's ghost spoke, when he said, "It is too late. He is mine."
4. Beth's ghost said that Quentin loved David and thought he was the reincarnation of Jamison. Jamison's rejection hurt him so much that his spirit could not rest. He wanted David to take the place of Jamison.

This episode was really exciting! We finally found out how Quentin and Beth died in the "original" storyline. Or was it? This is all quite confusing. 

I loved it when the camera zoomed in on Quentin - far too close - after Jamison rejected him. It looked like he was moving backwards. Great effect! It reminded me of Michael Jackson's "Thriller" video when the girl saw that he was a zombie. Fabulous!

The death scene was really bloody! It was thrilling to see Quentin upside down, with his eyes and mouth wide open. I must admit, though, that the blood looked like red paint! It wasn't very realistic looking. 

I thought it was great when Quentin's ghost disappeared when Professor Stokes came in. Kudos for another suspenseful ending. Julia: "David is... David is dead!" Then Quentin laughs, and we hear my favorite bum... bum... BUM... music at the end! Ooh!

There was a blooper in the credits. Daniel Collins was listed instead of Jamison Collins.

----- Sally -----

 

[alwaysdavid]

I must admit, though, that the blood looked like red paint! It wasn't very realistic looking.  

I notice how fake the blood looks too.  I didn't in 1969 when we had a 20 inch console color T.V. that you had to adjust the color with several knobs every time you turned it on, so I'm guessing that it shows up better on a screen twice the size.

[EmeraldRose]

We had a 19" Zenith black and white TV when I was growing up. It was a special treat when I went to my sister's house and got to watch her slightly larger color TV. So I didn't notice how fake the blood was, either, back in the day.

----- Sally -----

[Roland]

This for me is probably the single most annoying plotline in the history of DS - that Angelique would have had anything to do with the original Quentin Collins' death.  It makes no sense whatsoever, either from the standpoint of logic or the standpoint of drama.  What COULD the writers have been thinking?  (It would have made a lot more sense for Amanda Harris to have been the "other woman" in this scenario - oh, heck, even Charity Trask, aka Pansy Faye, would have been a better choice!).

Why were the candles lit on the landing outside the tower room?  Did Quentin or Beth light them so Julia could find her way?

And, seriously, a bottle with a label reading, in big bold letters, "Poison"?!  Sheesh.

[Roland]

Is the appearance by Thayer David in this episode the shortest in the history of DS (except maybe for Jenny's ghost)?

[Lydia]

As this episode ended, I wished I could download this episode into my head, and then knead it into something that I could deal with.  It's just so weird!

If you were a ghost, would you like the idea of somebody going back to the past and changing it so you could rest in peace, or would you figure that even a ghostly existence was better than the grave?

I think that the original idea of the writers must have been that it was Rachel whom Quentin was going to marry, not Angelique.  Then Kathryn Leigh Scott skipped town and they substituted Angelique, with a motivation that was revealed later (as IluvBarnabas notes), and which doesn't feel right.  They would have done better to substitute Amanda instead of Angelique, but it was too early in Amanda's stay on Dark Shadows for them to do that.  They could have pushed Quentin's death back a few weeks to accommodate Amanda, but I imagine they had decided that it was time to start wrapping things up in 1897 and that they couldn't wait.  As it is, it seems very strange to see Quentin and Angelique kissing.  I'm thinking it was correct acting on David Selby's part because of course Quentin wouldn't put his heart into it, but on the other hand, you'd think Quentin would have some proper pride in the matter and not want Angelique to go blabbing to Barnabas that her latest husband was a disappointment in the smooching department.  If she did, I hope she would note, to Quentin's credit, that he did seem to be starting out reasonably faithful, unlike Barnabas, who planned to ditch Angelique for Josette the minute he learned she was a witch.

When did we ever see Quentin promise to marry Beth?  I guess Beth was just assuming he would, but surely she knew him well enough to know that she couldn't assume it.  Maybe she was exaggerating in order to impress Angelique.  And then she cried and cried when Angelique made her own announcement, without going to Quentin to confirm it.  Careless of her - unless Quentin had been giving indications already that Angelique was catching his interest.

I felt very bad for Quentin.  He didn't want to marry Angelique, but he did so in order to be keep his end of the bargain with her.  Quentin is turning out to be surprisingly honorable.  When Petofi released Barnabas, Quentin kept his end of the bargain and didn't tell King Johnny about him, and now he's planning to go through with this marriage.  And he can't tell Jamison, "I did it for you, so that Angelique would save you," because there's no chance that Jamison would believe it.  Could he tell Beth?  Maybe, but Beth didn't give him the chance: she didn't ask Quentin any questions; she just shot him.

It was strange seeing Angelique find the splotches of blood.  (I'm sure it was real blood straight from the blood bank.  How can anybody doubt it?)  We saw her find them once before, when Charity/Pansy had a vision.  That vision was of the future.  Today when we saw it happen, Beth was telling of the past.  The next step is for us to see it when it's actually happening.

[Midnite]

When did we ever see Quentin promise to marry Beth?  I guess Beth was just assuming he would, but surely she knew him well enough to know that she couldn't assume it.  Maybe she was exaggerating in order to impress Angelique.

From #745--

Beth demands Quentin give her the gun.  Are you  that fond of Jenny? asks Q.  Think, Beth begs.  I am, he says, of YOU, he's doing it for you, I swear that--I love you.  She's your wife, objects Beth.  Exactly, says Quentin.  She again asks for the gun.  He insists she return to Collinwood and forget she ever came there.  If I leave now, says Beth, I'll be an accomplice to Jenny's murder.  Quentin promises her she will forget that.  (?)  . . .when we are married, he adds--he hadn't mentioned marriage before.

[Lydia]

Thanks, Midnite!  I guess Quentin isn't looking so honorable after all.

[Midnite]

The opener picks up where we'd left off-- with Julia listening to Quentin's music from the same spot in the foyer after Amy has fled the house.  She starts to ascend the staircase, and next, she's outside the tower room; did she search the entire house, or was she following the lit candles as Roland suggested?  (Or maybe they were lit by the same phenomenon that ignites the candles in the sealed secret room of the mausoleum?)  Julia is led into the room when its door swings open, but then it slams shut behind her and Beth tells her, "You must go away"; now there's a double message for you.

Since the major circumstances of Beth's death hadn't been changed at this point, she should have been wearing her white dress.  I think her ghost gets yet another dress the next time we see her, but by that point her history has been decidedly changed, so that time it will make more sense that she lost the fancy dress.

IINM, ghostly Beth never mentions the name Angelique.  It's most noticeable when Ghost Beth tells Julia, "I saw the other woman when she returned to the house.  I saw the look of shock on her face..."  It's only in flashback that [Alive] Beth speaks Angelique's name.  I wonder if the writers are establishing that Angelique indeed wasn't the other woman in the original unchanged past.  (I'm with Lydia, btw, in thinking it was Rachel who originally came between Quentin and Beth.  Quentin's ghost did have a thing for her, and had Barnabas remained in his coffin, she may have fallen for Quentin's charms, not to mention stayed alive.)

I get that Quentin is under a great deal of pressure, but ignoring and shouting at Beth and refusing to let her in on what's troubling him-- it's as if we're seeing the old (pre-cursed) Quentin again.  I do buy Jamison's extreme reaction to Beth's anguish, even if she was just a servant.  He already lost Rachel, Judith, and his own mother, and thanks to Quentin nearly lost the only motherly figure he has left in the house.

We've heard Quentin speak before, btw, but only in Jamison's dream.  Beth, too, spoke only in Amy's dream.  But I believe this is the first time we hear both ghosts speak outside of a dream.

Angelique's expression after she informed Beth of her impending nuptials tells us she merely saw it as a a dirty job that somebody had to do.  But her line, "You'll get over it in time, my dear; everyone does" made me want to slap her even more because as we all know, Angelique herself never got over it.

And, seriously, a bottle with a label reading, in big bold letters, "Poison"?!  Sheesh.

I'm sure I wore the same shade of pale pink circa 1969 that Terry Crawford had on her nails, but nail polish in 1897, really?!

The 1897 bulbs are still there in the foyer.

I'm pretty sure the crew has forgotten about those foyer lights.  You'll see what I mean once 1897 is over.

Quentin crazily goes to the tower.  Why not go for help?

Because he was trying to get away from a crazed woman who was chasing him with a gun and shouting that she will get him?

To me, the blood in the drawing room looked like cutouts set on top of the floor.  (Does anyone remember Colorforms?  )

[Lydia]

IINM, ghostly Beth never mentions the name Angelique.  It's most noticeable when Ghost Beth tells Julia, "I saw the other woman when she returned to the house.  I saw the look of shock on her face..."  It's only in flashback that [Alive] Beth speaks Angelique's name.  I wonder if the writers are establishing that Angelique indeed wasn't the other woman in the original unchanged past.

Very interesting.  As if the space-time continuum (or something) were teetering on the fence, itself unable to determine who was Quentin's fiancée.

[Midnite]

As if the space-time continuum (or something) were teetering on the fence,

Or space and time were just canoodling? 

[Lydia]

On the fence?  Could be hazardous.