1840 storyline....love it or hate it?

[MagnusTrask]

Yes, BC and JH never really did their homework, so they and we don't know.

[Doug]

So far my favorite part of the 1840 Storyline is when Barnabas found Julia kept as a prisoner down in
a basement from Angelique and Roxanne. Then Barnabas encountered Roxanne when he was trying
to save Julia. But it would seem to me although Roxanne was a vampire, she was still would be under
Barnabas's control.

[Midnite]

How did Gerard die originally?

I don't think we're told how Gerard originally died.

Was Quentin originallly convicted and executed?

We learned in 1970 that Gerard killed him.

If true, the second thing seems like Barnabas and Julia would have found this out with a little research in 1970 -- either from the family history or court records or something. What did the family history originally say about Quentin I?

Since he was buried in an unmarked grave in a remote part of the cemetery, I doubt there would be an official death record to find; Gerard probably would have seen to that too.  Julia was able to determine the date Quentin died because his diary entries suddenly stopped.

[David]

I remain astonished by how many fans are unbothered by the sloppy writing of 1840.
Very little of it makes sense.

Though 1795 & 1897 are wonderful, the early B & W Barnabas eps show that DS could be grand in modern times. All that was needed was good scripts & good acting!

David

[alwaysdavid]

I dug up these neilson ratings from an online encyclopedia that has ratings for all the soaps year by year I would assume that except for the debut episode these are yearly averages
Dark Shadows debut 4.1
66-67  4.3
67-68 7.3
68-69 8.4
69-70  7.3
70-71 5.3

[David]

These were indeed yearly Neilsens.
Neilsen means nothing to me.
DS was known to have around 20 million viewers at its 1969 peak.
8.4 only counts for half of that.

Last year, MSNBC did a story that suggests that Neilsen has been undercounting each show by around 30% for a long, long time.

A good example are the 3 current soaps on ABC, all at an all time Neilsen low.
But Neilsen, by it's own admission, does not include TIVO viewers who might save the show for a weekend marathon.
When you add those viewers, plus each show's Soapnet reruns, the viewership could easily double.

But there's no question about it: bad writing cost DS a lot of viewers during the final year.

I understand that the cast/crew was getting burned out~~it was a hard show to do.
Still, why couldn't they bring DS to the 5 year anniversary, end all storylines properly & give the characters a proper farewell?

David

[Garth Blackwood]

In addition to what I said above, I guess my primary problem with the 1840 story is that the writers simply did not care to explain why anything happened.

For example, why did the ghosts of Gerard and Daphne start haunting the house in 1970?? Why not any other time? At least in 1897, Quentin's ghost was "released" by the kids discovering his room and doing various things for him. With Gerard's ghost, they just basically showed up one day and started making the playroom appear, with apparently no external cause. The only even half-reason is that Hallie had shown up, making the pair Tad & Carrie together again, but it still seems like Gerard's ghost should have had power and been able to cause trouble without the kids (especially considering how unimportant they ended up being).

Along the lines of what I said before, I really don't see how the events of 1840 could have caused the events of 1970. Whoever heard of a ghost possessing another ghost (since apparently Gerard's ghost was actually Judah's ghost)?? When Gerard's body died, I don't see why Judah's ghost would remain with him-- it seems like the his soul would just return to the Head or something.

Lastly-- what was so special about shooting Gerard with a gun that caused Judah's soul to leave his body before he died? Gerard obviously died around 1840 in the original timeline, so why didn't Judah's body leave his soul that time? I guess it was an enchanted gun or something ...

All of the other DS stories can somehow be rationalized based on the rules we know about the universe of DS, but that's considerably harder with 1840, which is why its my least favorite by far

[David]

In addition to what I said above, I guess my primary problem with the 1840 story is that the writers simply did not care to explain why anything happened.
...
All of the other DS stories can somehow be rationalized based on the rules we know about the universe of DS, but that's considerably harder with 1840, which is why its my least favorite by far

You got that right, Mr. B.
NOTHING in this storyline makes a lick of sense!

Should I start talking about the 1840 deaths of Angelique, Edith & Roxanne again?

David

[Garth Blackwood]

Should I start talking about the 1840 deaths of Angelique, Edith & Roxanne again?

Well one could always pass that off to someone changing history, since we observed 1897 before 1840 had been changed. However that will never explain how Roxanne became a vampire originally which, in my mind, is the greatest and most nebulous DS paradox, LOL..

[Midnite]

In addition to what I said above, I guess my primary problem with the 1840 story is that the writers simply did not care to explain why anything happened.

Count me as someone who loves 1840.  It has continuity holes, and the story seemed to change course as soon as it began (as did 1795), but I don't think it's fair to assume this was due to the writers not caring.

One possible explanation for the change in plotting could have to do with the availability of David Henesy, who went to live with his dad during this period.  Tad is in Boston through much of 1840 though he was originally to have been a major character.

But the many MANY unanswered questions leave much open to speculation by fans, and over the years I've seen some intriguing theories on how the original events may have played out and how revised events might connect to the present.

SPOILERS for 1897: (cuz not all our visitors may have seen 1897 and that subject is, you know, off topic for this thread  )

For example, why did the ghosts of Gerard and Daphne start haunting the house in 1970?? Why not any other time? At least in 1897, Quentin's ghost was "released" by the kids discovering his room and doing various things for him. With Gerard's ghost, they just basically showed up one day and started making the playroom appear, with apparently no external cause. The only even half-reason is that Hallie had shown up, making the pair Tad & Carrie together again, but it still seems like Gerard's ghost should have had power and been able to cause trouble without the kids

It wasn't so much Quentin's release from the room that kick started his haunting because he was already communicating with the "children" before they found the room.  I believe that what started his haunting was Amy's arrival, same as for Hallie.

Whoever heard of a ghost possessing another ghost (since apparently Gerard's ghost was actually Judah's ghost)??

Whoever heard of a linen closet changing into a much larger playroom and back again?  It makes no sense in the physical world, but I think the idea of a ghost room is endlessly fascinating.

When Gerard's body died, I don't see why Judah's ghost would remain with him-- it seems like the his soul would just return to the Head or something.

The head was destroyed when Gerard was shot, leaving Judah with nowhere else to go.  But why the ghost resembles Gerard and not Judah is anybody's guess.  Though that Storm sneer is great. 

[Garth Blackwood]

I always thought in pre-1897 that Quentin's ghost was roused by Amy picking up the old telephone and talking to him. I figured Quentin had always been waiting on the phone, and when someone finally made contact with him he was able to possess them and gain power. No such reasonable explanation can be made about how Gerard and Daphne "established" themselves at Collinwood.

Yes, the head was destroyed when Gerard died, but why?? It just spontaneously combusted after Gerard was shot ... Once again, what was so special about that particular gunshot that released someone from a possession which would otherwise have lasted at least 130 years after his death? I think they definately needed a more reasonable way of killing Judah Zachary and subsequetly averting the disaster in the future.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

But Neilsen, by it's own admission, does not include TIVO viewers who might save the show for a weekend marathon.

I don't know about daytime shows because I've never seen that specifically stated, but DVR viewing has been measured for primetime since January of 2006 (though the numbers come out separately) and is factored in so long as shows are viewed within 7 days of their actual airing. (Some primetime shows even tout their online viewing.)

One possible explanation for the change in plotting could have to do with the availability of David Henesy, who went to live with his dad during this period.  Tad is in Boston through much of 1840 though he was originally to have been a major character.

Very true. There are several topics on the forum that discuss how the unavailability of David Henesy necessitated that the writers make last minute changes to what they had originally planned for Tad in 1840, And such last minute changes happen all the time on all the soaps. Writers can plan ahead all they want - but when real life intervenes, there's not much to do but rework the story with what you've still got available to you.

As much as some may complain about the reworking between 1970 and 1840, though, that pales in comparison to the reworking between 1967 and 1795. And in that case the fact that Joshua made up his own history can certainly explain away the written accounts, but it most certainly doesn't explain away Barnabas' version of events. But as I was saying just the other day, soaps rewrite their history all the time. It's not usually as blatant as it was between 1967 and 1795 because the rewriting usually takes place years after the fact - but it's a tried and true practice.

(Of course, another tried and true soap practice is eventually having enemies fall in love, which relates directly to Barnabas' declaration of love for Angelique. But we've discussed that soap practice at length in a few different topics on the forum, so I won't go into it again here. No doubt a search should bring those topics up.  )

It wasn't so much Quentin's release from the room that kick started his haunting because he was already communicating with the "children" before they found the room.  I believe that what started his haunting was Amy's arrival, same as for Hallie.

Exactly.

I think the idea of a ghost room is endlessly fascinating.

Yes, that was one of the more inventive parts of the Summer of '70.

[Midnite]

I always thought in pre-1897 that Quentin's ghost was roused by Amy picking up the old telephone and talking to him. I figured Quentin had always been waiting on the phone, and when someone finally made contact with him he was able to possess them and gain power.

<insert joke here about long waits on hold for technical support> 

Seriously, I'm remembering that Quentin would only speak to Amy at first and I think he even hung up on David.

No such reasonable explanation can be made about how Gerard and Daphne "established" themselves at Collinwood.

IF they both died there (their magically movable headstones indicated they both died in 1841), wouldn't that be a reason for their spirits to be established in the house?

Yes, the head was destroyed when Gerard died, but why?? It just spontaneously combusted after Gerard was shot ... Once again, what was so special about that particular gunshot that released someone from a possession which would otherwise have lasted at least 130 years after his death?

Charles Dawson told Judah that he was vulnerable while in possession of Gerard's body, which I assume meant that he could die along with him.  (I'm guessing you're being sarcastic when you ask if the gun is enchanted, but I don't think the gunshot made a difference because Leticia also knew he could die and tried to stab him with a knife.)

I still don't feel it's necessarily a bad thing that the explanation for the possession not ending n the unchanged timeline is left to speculation.  Maybe Gerard originally committed suicide?  Maybe in time, Judah found a way to keep a firmer hold on the body he was possessing?  Anybody?

I think they definately needed a more reasonable way of killing Judah Zachary and subsequetly averting the disaster in the future.

I hear you, GB.  I wonder if it would've made a bit more sense if Quentin had forgiven his former friend before others (including Gerard) declared that the possession had ended, but that's me.

[MagnusTrask]

"History is always being rewritten."-- Barnabas Collins

I always took for granted that Barnabas made Roxanne a vampire, in either time line.    Maybe 1840 Barnabas had a brief stint out of the box thanks to Angelique on one of her yearly visits, in 1840, 1841, 1842...?    I imagine she was tempted every single time.   Ang certainly would have been around each anniversary, but probably would not have cursed Roxanne directly, since she'd have no apparent reason to, but who knows?

As I notice more and more holes and problems in all the storylines, 1840's errors seem less important.    1968 was a grab-bag of whatever they could think of thrown together, with rules going out the window, so compared to that, 1840 seems grounded and reasonable.    1840 feels much more like conscientious, solid, serious DS than 1968 does, to me, despite many flaws.

There's no logical reason in particular for ghosts to look like their former bodies.    But they do, so I'd guess that after living for awhile as Gerard master of Collinwood, that's Judah's body-- so that's what Judah's ghost looks like.   The body at the time of death may determine what image the ghost has.   (The question for me is, what happens to the soul of the real Gerard?)   

Another possibility is that ghosts can choose their appearance, and Judah was just as dead-set on being master of Collinwood in death as he was in life, and that means being Gerard.     Gerard has a scarier glower than Judah too.

[Gerard]

I made mention on another thread dealing with this subject my speculation of what happened in unchanged 1840/41 history.  After Gerard/Judah offed Quentin (by whatever means), he sought to solidify his total control and ownership of Collinwood, but Tad remained a problem being the heir to the family fortune.  When Gerard/Judah tried to deal with him, not only did Tad resist, but so did Daphne, and Carrie decided to get into the tussle, too.  Gerard/Judah takes them to Rose Cottage for a final confrontation but all four are killed there (possibly by a fire that breaks out) during a battle royale.  With Tad dead, the inheritance of Collinwood passes to one of Gabriel's and Edith's children (Edith, of course, was not killed in the unchanged history but then maybe neither Gabriel, so who knows).  Anyway, that's just how I viewed things as "originally" happening.

Gerard