DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '09 II => Topic started by: Watching Project on August 13, 2009, 11:16:26 PM

Title: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Watching Project on August 13, 2009, 11:16:26 PM
Robservations #840
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: IluvBarnabas on August 15, 2009, 02:04:56 AM
Now Petofi has Julia in his clutches. Looks like Julia got more than she bargained for when she came to 1897. [ghost_sad]

Quentin seems guilt-stricken about back-stabbing Barnabas and betraying Julia to Petofi, but Amanda seems to be a pleasant distraction (gag!) from dwelling on what he's done. [ghost_rolleyes]

I wonder why Tate's sketch did NOT come into being this time. Usually whatever he draws come to life the moment he's finished but not this time. Huh.... [ghost_blink]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: alwaysdavid on August 15, 2009, 09:58:32 PM
I was thinking that when Petofi told Quentin that he was his slave that many other people wished they could say the same thing.
Has Petofi thought this future thing through?  If he went there would he not be dead?  Why not go change the past so he could have escaped the werewolf curse and the gypsies all together.  How does he know he'll go to the right time anyway?
The I Ching need to be explained more as it to how get's people to the time they want. 
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Midnite on August 15, 2009, 11:07:35 PM
The story was that if Petofi got his hand back in time, he would become immortal.  And as such, he'd survive time travel.

The 1897 story started to spin out of control near its halfway point.  We're supposed to just go with it.  But that's not easy, I know.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: MagnusTrask on August 15, 2009, 11:48:12 PM
The most interesting thing at this point is Petofi endeavoring to work out how the I Ching works, and what he must do to go to the future.   Be patient.    It's much better finding out slowly.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 16, 2009, 12:24:35 AM
We're supposed to just go with it.  But that's not easy, I know.

DS often requires a boatload of suspension of disbelief.  [ghost_grin]  And at least when it comes to the supernatural elements within the show, I don't generally have a problem with that.


Changing gears, I love these shots of Julia's face when she's trying to remain defiant with Petofi:

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/0840-1.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/0840-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Midnite on August 16, 2009, 08:29:33 PM
I love horror and scifi, so the fantastic and unreal are cool with me.  And I'm beyond cool with the curses, witchcraft, gods, premonitions, and even the splendid other world of the Phoenix that we get in the early half of 1897, and I appreciate that the writing made sense of each turn of the plot.  But in the later half, we get (along with the influx of new characters) wild information that leaves even the attentive fan scratching his or her head.  And it doesn't help that by this point the timeline bears little resemblance to what it was originally.  While the plot holes are fodder for speculation, they also bring mounting questions in the Watching Project that just simply have no right or wrong answer.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 16, 2009, 08:56:41 PM
While the plot holes are fodder for speculation, they also bring mounting questions in the Watching Project that just simply have no right or wrong answer.

And speculating is what these discussions are all about. Some of the most fun in the WP topics is reading the speculations that some fans come up with. Well, so long as the speculations don't ignore what's already been established as fact.  [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Midnite on August 16, 2009, 09:19:54 PM
Definitely!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Irishcoda on August 16, 2009, 10:21:15 PM
One thing that was really cool about this year's fest was Frank Borzellieri.  I have a feeling he made a similar presentation at the fest last year but this was the first time I'd heard it.  He was saying that anything is possible as long as it doesn't violate the law of physics.  He went into going back into time and changing the past, i.e. what you mentioned about Petofi.  That's been discounted before because it could create a paradox *but* he provided an explanation of how it could happen.  It's a conjecture so far, hasn't been proven.  If Petofi went back to change things so he wasn't a werewolf, he might create a parallel world then and there.  It's not anything proven but ya know--if we could think it, maybe someone will be able to prove it.  Look at what Einstein was able to do!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: alwaysdavid on August 16, 2009, 11:26:12 PM
The most interesting thing at this point is Petofi endeavoring to work out how the I Ching works, and what he must do to go to the future.
It's been fourty years since I've seen these episodes; so, I'll have to see where it goes, but it seems to me that there is a lot of  laziness on the writer's part  in following what had gone before or ignoring it to fit the characters into the direction they want to go .  The only thing I remember about the Petofi storyline is that [spoiler]He takes over Quentin's mind for a while[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: MagnusTrask on August 17, 2009, 04:25:01 AM
If Petofi went back to change things so he wasn't a werewolf, he might create a parallel world then and there.

I've heard SF fans repeat this idea endlessly for years, without explaining the supposed physics.   A parallel universe occupying the same space at the same time?   Don't you think it might take more to create an entire universe than someone choosing paper instead of plastic, say? 
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 17, 2009, 07:05:17 AM
I've heard SF fans repeat this idea endlessly for years, without explaining the supposed physics.   A parallel universe occupying the same space at the same time?   Don't you think it might take more to create an entire universe than someone choosing paper instead of plastic, say?

Nope. The theory says that whenever there are different choices presented to us, we do indeed make each choice, and each choice creates it own parallel world. It's all part of Quantum Mechanics and String Theory - and we've discussed it here on the forum before. I even once provided a link to a PBS special on the subject.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: MagnusTrask on August 17, 2009, 09:23:08 AM
Nope. The theory says that whenever there are different choices presented to us, we do indeed make each choice, and each choice creates it own parallel world. It's all part of Quantum Mechanics and String Theory - and we've discussed it here on the forum before. I even once provided a link to a PBS special on the subject.

Well, I do think it would have to take more than that.  Anyway, I can't do that kind of research with my eye problem and if it's video my computer won't show it... not that's anyone's fault, just stating facts.   I do to find a relatively summing-up of all this...
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Irishcoda on August 18, 2009, 02:16:38 AM
The theory says that whenever there are different choices presented to us, we do indeed make each choice, and each choice creates it own parallel world. It's all part of Quantum Mechanics and String Theory - and we've discussed it here on the forum before. I even once provided a link to a PBS special on the subject.

I wonder if that PBS special is still around or online?  I love google!

Mr. Borzellieri did talk about how parallel time is still just conjecture but like relativity and worm holes could eventually become proven.  He started off his talk with examples of things we used to think were impossible...and now have become every day items.  Cars.  Computers.  The shuttle.  So I'm pretty sure Hawking's conjectures will become fact too, hope in my lifetime! [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 23, 2009, 05:53:57 AM
I wonder if that PBS special is still around or online?

It's definitely still available. In fact, I enjoy the show so much that talking about again got me interested in watching it again - and I'm doing that very thing now. Well, not at this second because I'm obviously typing this.  [ghost_wink]  But that's only because I'm taking a break. The show is three hours long - but each hour is broken up into 8 chapters for easy viewing if one doesn't want to sit though all three hours or even just one hour in the same sitting. Anyone interested can check out The Elegant Universe (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program_d.html). However, the subject of parallel universes, though touched upon in the first hour, doesn't really begin in earnest until later on. So if that's all your interested in, have patience. It really does pay to watch the whole show in order to understand everything. In fact, the program is really quite fascinating - even on one's 3rd, 4th or even 20th viewing...
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Roland on September 13, 2009, 04:33:07 AM
Nowing next to nothing about women's garments in the present, let alone the past,  I was still surprised to hear Petofi mention Julia's shockingly short skirt.  I was under the impression that women of that time only wore dresses.  Would the bottom half still have been called a skirt?
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Roland on September 13, 2009, 06:48:40 PM
And apparently "nowing" next to nothing about spelling.  For some reason, when I type on this site, easily half the letters don't show up and I have to constantly hit "backspace" in the course of my writing.  Does anyone else have this problem on here?   

I'm going to have to start cutting-and-pasting off Word.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Midnite on September 13, 2009, 08:03:22 PM
I was under the impression that women of that time only wore dresses.  Would the bottom half still have been called a skirt?

Google: Victorian skirts.   [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: EmeraldRose on September 19, 2009, 10:14:30 AM
Major Milestones: [milestone]
1. Was this the first time a woman with short hair wore a long dress in the past on DS? If so, then that's a milestone.
2. Tate told Amanda that he believed she was created when he first painted her portrait - on March 11, 1895.
3. Count Petofi kept Julia prisoner and made her tell him about the I-Ching wands.
4. Count Petofi made Quentin tell him where the I-Ching wands were. CP also threatened Q, who didn't want to help CP anymore, that he could cause Q to have a "relapse" at any time, so CP was Q's master, and Q was forced to continue to "obey" him.
5. Count Petofi used the I-Ching wands for the first time and found a threateningly scary Golden Scimitar on the other side of the door.

Julia looked pretty with her purple dress and short red hair. [gorgeous]

I think it's terrible that Beth was dropped by Quentin. Now Q is enamored with Amanda. Yuck! I feel sorry for Beth. [ghost_sad]

Count Petofi was really anxious to get to the future to escape from the gypsies. But wouldn't his body stay in 1897 like Barnabas's body did in the beginning? The gypsies could still find him and take his hand again as he sat there in his trance. [ghost_shocked]

I find all this time travel stuff fascinating. The Quantum Physics of it all is "way over my head", though.  [ashamed3]  I also enjoyed Frank's presentation when I saw it last year. It was great because he spoke in "layman's terms" to make it easier to understand. [ghost_wink]

----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: fanforever on September 23, 2009, 08:23:44 AM
Count Petofi was really anxious to get to the future to escape from the gypsies. But wouldn't his body stay in 1897 like Barnabas's body did in the beginning? The gypsies could still find him and take his hand again as he sat there in his trance. [ghost_shocked]

Yes, that is correct, but
[spoiler]since Petofi will eventually take over Quentin's body, no one will be the wiser if Quentin is in a trance. The gypsies would never think to cut off his hand.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: MagnusTrask on September 23, 2009, 08:45:34 AM
I still think I Ching is only viable for visits, not permanent moves.   

[spoiler]Would Q's body (and portrait) stay there alive, healthy and unmolested for all of time while Petofi lives for centuries in the future?   

The only way Q-tofi's body gets to 1969 is if it lives its way through all those years.   So the body in the trance has to stay in that room till Petofi's consciousness leapfrogs time to 1969 and re-animates the body in that same room.   There's something else wrong with all this I can't remember right now too. [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: fanforever on September 24, 2009, 05:11:10 PM
But if your theory is correct, then
[spoiler]why did Q-tofi, when he got past the time barrier, awaken in the foyer of Collinwood, instead of the West Wing?[/spoiler]
Remember, DS is supposed to be fantasy, and some occurences cannot be pinned down with cold, hard facts.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: MagnusTrask on October 04, 2009, 06:56:57 AM
But if your theory is correct, then
[spoiler]why did Q-tofi, when he got past the time barrier, awaken in the foyer of Collinwood, instead of the West Wing?[/spoiler]

No good reason, that's for sure.   But I'm fully aware that DS is about magic, and I switch my science-fiction brain off when watching.  However, even fantasies, good competent ones, need some consistent sense.  You can't have, say, characters suddenly change names or personalities, or suddenly make a werewolf a zombie instead for no explained reason and act as if it was always that way....  Fantasy still has to make internal sense.   If Petofi wears an eye patch and tutu, then when the camera's back on him he's in the bathtub, then next shot he's on the roof, all in the same scene, then fantasy or no fantasy, that's wrong.  Not that I wouldn't want to see it....
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Lydia on October 18, 2009, 04:34:26 PM
I wonder why Tate's sketch did NOT come into being this time. Usually whatever he draws come to life the moment he's finished but not this time.
Amanda didn't appear right in front of Tate when he first drew her; she came to life on the streets of New York, which must have startled anybody who was nearby.  When Tate drew that glass, then somewhere - deep in the Amazon rain forest, perhaps - a glass appeared.  By the way, he certainly has a taste for the over-ornate, doesn't he?

Petofi made it clear today he didn't know that along with artistic talent he gave Tate the ability to create things out of nothing.  What else does Petofi do that he doesn't know about?

So...Quentin was killed by his wife and came back to life, he killed her and ended up with a werewolf curse, and then he just barely escaped being killed by his girlfriend when she found out he was marrying somebody else...and now he's dillydallying with yet another woman when he knows that his current fiancée is a witch with a jealous streak.  Oh, well, I guess the pressure of recent events has driven him around the bend.

I thought Julia was quite unnecessarily helpful with Petofi when he was trying out the I Ching.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0840
Post by: Midnite on November 10, 2009, 05:44:57 AM
They will form one of 64 hexagrams, she says.  Which is this one? he asks.  She checks the book--the third, the kune (?) hexagram.

It's the Chun Hexagram.

Quentin to Amanda:  "I'm not going to hide the fact that we're together."
Idiot.

The final scene, with Petofi in the I-Ching trance, was very well done, which is fortunate since it will be reused to open the next ep.

Jim Hale, who had a small role during 1795, provided the scimitar action.