Discuss - Ep #0722

[Watching Project]

Robservations #722

[Midnite]

OMG, the final scene has to be one of the creepiest ever!  It must've given me nightmares for days.  What's more terrifying to kids than the idea that they might wake to the sound of creaking and a dead man rocking next to their bed?!!

Carl.  Given how suspicious he is, blaming everybody-- even Barnabas and the gypsies-- for Quentin's murder, and how determined he became to "find out what's going on around here," how in the world did Judith and Edward keep Jenny a secret from him? 

And, since Edith's husband died in 1863 or thereabout, how could Carl vividly recall him fawning over Quentin, or Judith remember him sitting the boy on his lap? 

Loved seeing Judith laughing, even if it had to be in one of the show's weirdest dreams.

When Jamison was pleading for his uncle to come back, saying he'll do anything, did anybody else picture him in a swimming pool, tossing a ball and saying, "If I catch this one, Quentin isn't dead"?  No?  Never mind then.

[alwaysdavid]

The Collins children seem to have never had any love for one another and appear to have been in competition with each other from an early age for the affection of the grandparents.  The writers seemed to have spent some time developing the backstory for 1897.   

[Midnite]

I just noticed that Violet Welles penned the ep, which I should've realized anyway considering the bizarre symbolism in Rachel's dream.  Two other surreal dreams penned by VW (Violet, not Vicki) that come to mind are Pansy Faye's act in Carl's dream, and of course Jamison's chilling birthday party dream.

[MagnusTrask]

Altight. we're now starting the dozen or so episodes in 1897 that I don't have, so I'll be bowing out of ep discussion and captioning for awhile.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Not to discourage you from posting on the CTP/FITB(s) boards, but keep in mind that, even if you have missing eps, you can follow along with the WP by reading the Robservations summaries that are linked to in the first post in every WP topic. And captures are now being added to the Robs for the current WP eps, so it's a bit like watching the actual eps. 

[MagnusTrask]

I don't want just information... I know these ep's are good and I don't want spoilers.

[Pansity]

Really good character development in the first scene with Judith and Carl.  I think that Judith had some very contradictory feelings about Quentin; she hates how he behaves, but on some levels cares about him, and she seems to genuinely mourn him.  Carl's (for want of a better term) soliloquy is quite a departure for the jolly joker.  There's a lot of venom and pent up rage there -- he really seems to HATE Quentin and sees this as a chance to say everything he's thought for years, but was too afraid of retaliation to say. There seems to be no caring or regret at all.  Karlen played this very well, making it fit with the Carl we've already met.  And in the recurring pattern of irony that runs through this storyline, Carl's hate and lack of mourning is very ironic considering [spoiler]Quentin's regrets over Carl's death later.[/spoiler]

I agree, the writers really seem to have thought out the sibling relationships in this family, as we see a lot of these feelings and reactions carrying forward throughout the storyline.

David Henesy did a great job with this.  He behaved the way you would expect, denying it.  And the very poignant statement "now I'm all alone" implying that he felt Quentin was his only friend -- and we know even as he loved the boy, he was using him for all he was worth.

Anyone get the feeling that the stock coffin wasn't QUITE the fit for Selby?  Best I can tell we never see Q full length in the coffin, just partial shots.

On an LOL note, in the coffin it's real obvious that the makeup artists used what my friend Joan (who studied to be a makeup artist in England) called "the purple eyeshadow of death" -- and with a liberal hand. 

And Midnight -- Can't agree more about the scene with Quentin in the rocker.  VERY spooky even now.

Jeannie

[Lydia]

Yes, indeed, Rachel's dream was wonderfully creepy, and the sequel to it was the icing on the cake.

We're not seeing any particular sign of nerves in Judith, despite that fact that she knows that it was Jenny, not a sailor, who killed Quentin, and that Jenny is living in the same house.  I always think of Edward as being the sibling who is most protective of the good Collins name, but Judith is giving him a run for his money.  If Jenny isn't sent away, she could end up killing everybody in the house, one by one - saving Judith for last, maybe, because apparently Jenny particularly hates Judith - but Judith wouldn't dream of sending Jenny off to a mental asylum where she would air all the Collins dirty linen in front of dozens of fellow lunatics.

Today's cast of characters was completely different from yesterday's, except for Quentin, who was in the coffin until the very end.

And, since Edith's husband died in 1863 or thereabout, how could Carl vividly recall him fawning over Quentin, or Judith remember him sitting the boy on his lap?

Gabriel was sitting in the rocking chair...rocking...rocking...and little Quentin climbed up into his lap...

[Pansity]

We're not seeing any particular sign of nerves in Judith, despite that fact that she knows that it was Jenny, not a sailor, who killed Quentin, and that Jenny is living in the same house.  I always think of Edward as being the sibling who is most protective of the good Collins name, but Judith is giving him a run for his money.  If Jenny isn't sent away, she could end up killing everybody in the house, one by one - saving Judith for last, maybe, because apparently Jenny particularly hates Judith - but Judith wouldn't dream of sending Jenny off to a mental asylum where she would air all the Collins dirty linen in front of dozens of fellow lunatics.

This is an excellent point, considering that Judith just missed being a victim herself.  I'm thinking Judith is one of those people who believes what is most convenient to believe.  It's not convenient to think that Jenny is dangerous enough to need an institution; therefore Judith has convinced herself somehow that Jenny can be contained (and has she thought forward to how many years that would need to be?  Jenny's only 28.) and Quentin's death will make her manageable.  It's not convenient to believe that Jenny would really have killed her, so Judith has managed to make it something minor that an ex ladies maid can manage.

Explains a lot about her later interactions with Trask -- and how she manages to miss a number of warning signs.

Jeannie

[EmeraldRose]

I agree, that last scene with Zombie Quentin in the rocking chair was very creepy! It really scared me the first time I saw it. I loved the dream, too... very frightening! I think this may have been the most that JB and JK laughed as any character on DS. Even though it was eerie, it was nice to see them laughing so much.

This was the first time that Jamison was possessed. DH did an excellent job! That was really spooky when Jamison called Judith "sister" and Carl "brother".

I could see how, even if Quentin did not move, Carl might have imagined it.  The few dead people I have seen just look to me like they are asleep and could wake up at any moment. The imagination can play tricks on you! 

----- Sally -----

[IluvBarnabas]

Judith and Edward both worried about disgrace coming to the family name and that leads them to making some very questionable decisions like liking up a dangerous woman in the house, a woman who could very easily escape and kill everybody, including the children. 

Didn't they consider the risk they were putting Jamison and Nora by keeping Jenny in Collinwood? Or does the Collins family name come first before everyone, including innocent children? Hmm

Even before Judith and Carl admit Quentin was the grandparents' favorite, I had suspected this, and this being the reason
Quentin never got along with siblings. However....[spoiler] Quentin is the spitting image of his great-uncle, Quentin #1, the
brother that Gabriel hated and Edith disliked in 1840. Doesn't it strike anyone else as strange that they would favor the grandchild who resembled the brother/brother-in-law they despised? [/spoiler]