Vampires vs. Werewolves

[Mysterious Benefactor]

A big plot point in a lot of recent films and TV shows seems to be the animosity between vampires and werewolves. We see it in the Underworld and Twilight films and in the TV shows The Gates and True Blood, and presumably we'll probably see it in the upcoming season of The Vampire Diaries (though to a lesser extent because in that universe supposedly the vampires know very little about werewolves). I find this very interesting because there's no such animosity in the DS universe  (and I can't really recall it being much of a plot point in the films that were made when I was young). So, I'm wondering if that's because this animosity is a fairly new development in vampire/werewolf lore? Or has it been there for quite some time but DS chose to ignore it or at least overlook it (and when I was young I just happened to miss seeing the films in which it was present)?

[Willie Loomis]

Barnabas protected Quentin and Chris, because they were family (well, before he found out about Chris being family, he empathized with him).   That's my theory. 

I think in the older movies such as the Universal movies all the monsters got along.    And come to think of it, in those movies, they never really interacted so much.  After viewing Twilight purely on a whim, I can assure you that I will never watch another of those movies, BUT, I need to catch up with True Blood.  I own the first season on DVD and want to get the second season.   In that story line, the shape changer and the vampire actually vie for the affections of Sookie, if I'm not mistaken, so there might be the conflict there.

Perhaps these stories always reflect the current state of society?  Who knows, I just watch for pure enjoyment. 

one time a friend of mine was trying to tell me tha the Wizard of OZ of 39 was laden with poltical messages......

[Gothick]

In the old lore collected by "Rev." Montague Summers and other authorities, vampires and werewolves were practically kissing kin.  While in some of the legends they were described very differently, in other folk-tales they were both regarded as forms of the Undead.

In the Universal 1940s films, "wolfman" Larry Talbot hangs out with Dracula, the Frankenstein monster, various mad scientists, Maria the gypsy (played by fabulous Marie Ouspenskaya--the Magda character was a mixture of Maria, the gypsy played by Marlene Dietrich in Touch of Evil--she actually has the line to the Orson Welles character, "you hef no future" and a dash of Grayson's over-the-top stage persona), etc.

I haven't kept up with the current trends so was unaware that there is a "tradition" of werewolves and vampires fighting one another.

cheers, G.

[quentincollins]

White Wolf's role playing games and novels feature very well thought out reasons for the werewolf/vampire animosity. In their world werewolves are the defenders of nature, and vampires are very much unliving corruption of nature.
White Wolf's world has very detailed and involved socitey and culture developed around their monsters, they have a society all their own, very different from the isolated cursed beings in DS.

[MagnusTrask]

Classic werewolves are the representation and exaggeration of everything we fear nature.   They're mindless rage, dismembering us not for food or survival, but just because they're evil and out to get us.   We saw wild animals that way, we saw tribal humans that way too.   If they can be said to have enemies, then their enemies are anyone and everyone they happen to run across.   A vampire would just be one more body to tear to pieces, except that they couldn't do it.

[Gothick]

Who or what is White Wolf?

I really do live in a cave...

G.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

In the Universals, the first monster pair-up was the Frankenstein Monster and the Wolf Man.  They did not get along, because the Wolf Man didn't get along with anybody in his wolf form.  The first time that the Wolf Man actually interacted with Dracula on any MAJOR level was probably in the last chapter of the Universal Monster Movies, Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein.  In this movie, Dracula and the Wolf Man are clearly enemies, even when the Wolf Man, Larry Talbot, is human.  As a human, Larry symbolizes something akin to "good," while Dracula symbolizes pure evil. 

[quentincollins]

White Wolf is a publisher of role playing games and novels about vampires, werewolves, ghosts, fairies, etc. They have a complex and inticate history, very detailed.

[Joeytrom]

In the earliest Barnabas episodes, it was hinted at that he could turn himself into a dog.  There were a couple of times with Maggie when Barnabas was stalking her and someone commenting the only thing they saw was "a big, ugly, gray dog".

[Willie Loomis]

Ah, joeytrom, right.  forgot about that.   

and on a different note, there's Underworld trilogy.....

[Nightfall59]

In the earliest Barnabas episodes, it was hinted at that he could turn himself into a dog.  There were a couple of times with Maggie when Barnabas was stalking her and someone commenting the only thing they saw was "a big, ugly, gray dog".

They probably got that from the Dracula story. Or at least from the 1931 Bela Lugosi film. I watched that again recently and there was a comment made about a big dog that was seen running across the lawn, implying that Dracula had changed shape to made his escape after an attack.

[Janet the Wicked]

There is a reading club at my place of employment. Curiously, the gang is hooked on vampire and werewolf novels. I couldn't get through the True Blood series. I just don't care for the author's style. In a word, she stinks. But I like the show. Anyway, the latest trend seems to be that werewolves and vampires do not mix socially.

*The old gypsy woman's name in The Wolf Man is Maleva, BTW.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

the Universal Monster Movies, Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein.  In this movie, Dracula and the Wolf Man are clearly enemies, even when the Wolf Man, Larry Talbot, is human.  As a human, Larry symbolizes something akin to "good," while Dracula symbolizes pure evil.

Interesting. I've certainly heard of that movie but I don't think I've ever seen it - or if I have, it was either so long ago or that it didn't make an impression on me. It fascinating about the good vs. evil aspect because, while werewolf=good/vampire =evil has carried on in other movies/TV shows, it's also been turned around to where vampire=good and werewolf=evil. (And then there's the Underworld series that turns the whole concept of which is good and which is evil on its head!)

It's also fascinating how for the most part vampires as a group are depicted as being refined and well mannered, whereas werewolves as a group very often tend to be depicted as coarse and ill-mannered and even undereducated - something akin to vampires being royalty and werewolves being peasants. Considering both can be equally vicious, those depictions certainly don't derive from their temperaments.  

[Cousin_Barnabas]

I would definitely give A&C Meet Frankenstein another go, MB.  It is definitely an enjoyable film.  (It's the only other time Lugosi actually plays Dracula on film!) 

I know what you mean about "good" and "evil" becoming commonplace themes in monster movies, where good isn't necessarily defined as being a non-monster entity.  It's funny how something like a monster, which is supposed to represent evil, has evolved into a rather dynamic concept.  Then again, that idea has been present in monster lore even as early as Shelley's novel (if not before).  But, I think it's funny how prominent it has become.  I think Dark Shadows had a lot to do with that, though the Universals before that had a lot to do with it too.

I also like your idea about the class distinction between vampires and werewolves.  In the words of Barnabas:  "What an interesting observation."   

[quentincollins]

I love Charlaine Harris's Southern Vampire aka True Blood novels, I find them funny, dramatic and intriguing with a very well developed world full of quirky interesting characters.