Memories of Joel Crothers

[Gothick]

Fans, this evening I went to the one remaining gay bookstore in the area to hear veteran gay author Felice Picano read from his new book.  Felice's 1970s diaries were excerpted about 20 years ago in a book entitled The Violet Quill Reader.  I remember what a surprise it was to learn that Joel Crothers was a good friend of Picano's (and, he revealed this evening, an occasional bedmate).  I wish I had had a tape recorder with me this evening so I could simply transcribe Felice's words verbatim, but this was the gist of what he said.

During the Q&A, I explained my surprise when Joel turned up in the diaries.  Felice said that Joel was an amazing man, not only because he was so handsome and gifted, but also, he was something of a super-intellect--he gave Joel's IQ and it was quite high (I can't recall the number Felice cited).  He said that one morning he woke up in bed next to Joel and suddenly was seized with an urge to strangle him (very DS, isn't it?) because they were chatting and Joel "simply knew EVERYTHING."    He also recalled helping Harvey Fierstein get the first production of "Torch Song Trilogy" (a play which won awards and subsequently became a film with Matthew Broderick) and persuading Joel to act in the original production (I believe at Off Broadway's La Mama theatre).

He said that Joel was so brilliant that he eventually became bored with everything.  Joel was a huge star in the 1970s and 1980s on his various soap operas and Felice witnessed Joel being mobbed by women after a taping one afternoon, all seeking his autograph.

He said that Joel's work on DS could be considered "real acting" because the last thing Joel ever was was a "boy next door" type.  He said that Joel came from "a family of over-achievers" and he was just following in the family tradition.

Despite Joel's brilliance, he was a very kind-hearted and loving man and was popular among his friends.  He had a certain physical attribute that made him highly sought after among gay men but his friends cherished Joel because he was just such a nice person to be with.

I found this conversation quite fascinating since I have never read anything about who Joel was as a person.  I hope you enjoy reading these notes.

Best, Gothick

[David]

I'm going to order that book.
15 years ago Louis Edmonds told me that in December 1966, Joel brought his then boyfriend to the DS cast/crew Xmas party.
Even then, he had no shame. Louis, deep in the closet at that point,  said that Joel was the first out gay man he ever knew.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

Fascinating, G.  It's always fun to hear about the lives of the actors, especially ones who aren't talked about all that much.  Joel never seems to get the credit he deserves. 

The fact that he was exceptionally intelligent and not a "boy next door" type provides me with a new appreciation for his portrayal of Joe.  Up until now, I always felt his best performance as the character was when he was facing off against Vampilique, lashing out against the power she held over him, but now I can't wait to watch the first year again, so I can bring this new knowledge to the experience. 

[michael c]

interesting g...


and I admire your chutzpa for bringing up "the subject". you know, "the thing" we're never, ever supposed to mention in this fandom.

thanks.

[dom]

Thanx, T. Nice to get to know the man behind the actor, especially when so little is known or ever mentioned. And in a flattering light to boot.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Actually, it's perfectly fine to mention it here so long as it's confirmed public knowledge and not just rumor or hearsay, no matter how reliable the supposed hearsay may be. The fact that Joel Crothers was gay has been published in at least one DS book as well as in other places. And as David says, Joel never hid he was gay. We know that others don't always agree with the practice, but we tend to draw the line here when it comes to the DS stars who never publicly spoke of themselves as being gay, nor was it ever written about them. Not because being gay is such a deep, dark secret - it isn't - but because they wanted the subject kept private. And we respect their wishes. That's all. 

[michael c]

on this board perhaps...


but in other forums merely mention "the subject" and one of the schoolyard bullies is sure to read you the riot act.


like the depp/burton film it's one of the peculiarities of this fanbase that causes hysteria to arise.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

The interesting thing about that is that it used to be the exact opposite - especially on the DS Usenet Newsgroup back in the early-to-mid '90s. In fact, the hysteria was more along the lines of the obscene and outright hateful things that were routinely posted about gay DS stars. The things that were said were well beyond shocking - and it's because of the things that happened there that we have the practice that we do here. Actually, it's because of the way things were done there in general and in a couple other DS online venues that the original version of this forum was created on VantageNet in the first place.

[michael c]

without getting too much on a soapbox some DS fans need a bit of a history lesson/reality check...


like most New York based soap operas produced at the time the DS cast was largely populated by actors coming from the theatrical world. accordingly then, as now, that group intrinsically included a very large number of gay men. without getting into specific actors it only stands to reason a lot of them ended up on the show.

so the discomfort level that reality creates in some people who claim to "love" all of the DS actors to the point of obsessiveness is certainly perplexing.

[David]

In the late 70s & early 80s I saw Joel, and Louis Edmonds, in gay bars down in the Village in NYC.
Joel was on Edge of Night and Louis was on All My Children, and both seemed quite comfortable with the idea of being seen in those bars. (Uncle Charlie's South & Julius')

But Michael is correct. Back in the 80s I was subjected to false rumors about being HIV positive, about turning tricks at hotels during DS fests. I was accused of sexually harrasing people I'd never even met. The rumors were started by fellow fans who couldn't handle my being open about who I was.
The ironic thing was: the rumors were started by a closeted, gay born again Christian fan who hated being gay. When "the Lord" declined to "cure" him, he dealt with his self-hate by spreading rumors about other people's sex lives, fans & actors alike.

More than anyone, I blame the Fest organizers for how out of control this got, because they refused to implement any standard of conduct. This creep was allowed to behave that way with impunity for years--a number of people stopped going to the fests because of him, and because the fest committee refused to do anything about it.

[dom]

Memories of Joel Crothers: Please try to remember the actual topic. Thanx.

[tragic bat]

Thanks for sharing, Gothick.  It is very interesting to read more about him as a person.  He definitely doesn't sound like the very conservative, violent, simple-minded Joe Haskell. 

[Gothick]

Thank you all for your gracious comments.

David, I wouldn't bother buying the book if your motive is to learn more about Joel.  He is mentioned maybe 3 times in the diary excerpts published in it.  The mentions are sort of like this:  "Joel Crothers came over and we baked cookies together. He was quite chatty, as usual."  Another entry speaks of Joel being around when Felice was staying on Fire Island one summer in the Seventies.  It was pretty clear that Joel was very much on the scene in the gay community of the time.  I didn't even know from these references that Joel and Felice had shared a sexual dalliance, although it was hardly uncommon in those circles back then (and, perhaps, some other circles more recently... but I'm going WAY off topic here).

Anyone who wants to "bully" Your Humble Servant is welcome to try. From my years of watching DS and the work of the incomparable Miss Joan Bennett, THE Mistress of Collinwood, Now and FOREVER, I've mastered the art of the "the freeze."  LOL!

cheers, Gothick

[Patti Feinberg]

Fascinating to think of Joel Crothers as being a genius; he did in fact to me seem 'the boy next door'.

I'm sorry, I've never heard of Felice Picano.

Thanks for the info,

Patti

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Unless it relates to Joel Crothers, discussion of Picano is certainly OT for this topic (as well as the forum itself) - but simply as a way to provide background for those who are unfamiliar with him, here's a link to his page on Wikipedia: Felice Picano.