DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Polls Archive => Topic started by: Charles_Ellis on September 06, 2006, 02:16:24 PM
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Lately I've been thinking of what has led DS to be the phenomenon it is today, and it seems that several key decisions have helped to keep DS alive. They range from Dan Curtis agreeing to his wife Norma's advice to turn his odd dream about 'a girl on a train' into a TV show (1965) to a group of DS fans led by Kathy Resch and Marcy Robin creating the first DS convention (1977).
Personally, I feel that the decision with the deepest impact is Curtis' decision to keep the master recordings of each episode. Well, we wouldn't be here in such large numbers today if those master tapes were erased back then. Due to the expensive cost of videotape back then, the rule regarding most soaps in the 1960s and 70s was to reuse the tapes after a few weks or months, which is the sad reason why there aren't many original B/W or color tapes of soap episodes from those decades. There are exceptrions (Days of our Lives and The Young and the Restless were produced by Columbia Pictures/Soiny Televison, and Ryan's Hope was owned by Labine-Mayer Prods. from 1975-81), but most soaps didn't start saving tapes until the late 70s.
Without those original DS tapes, there would only be kinescopes of most episodes in the vaults until ABC stopped making them in late 1970. (BTW, that's the situation with ABC's own collection of pre-1978 General Hospital episodes). Fandom would be limited at best, and there would only be a few websites saluting the show (as in the cae of Love of Life, Somerset and other soaps of the period).
On the other hand, what would've happened if someone else had been hired to play Barnabas, if Art Wallace hadn't been hired to create a story for the new show, if Grayson Hall had taken that shower instead of answering her phone that fateful day in mid-'67, or if Dan hadn't been urged on by his daughters to go full-tilt with the supernatural elements of the show!
So, come on and tell us what was the most important decision in DS history. Choose from the above, or tell us your own opinion.
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That is a tough vote! Without reading what you had written, Charles, I was torn between the JF casting and the decision to keep the videos. I leaned toward JF, though.
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It's got to be Mr. Frid, hands down. Without Jonathan Frid, the show would have gone to the dogs. Mr. Frid was and still is a great theatrical speaker. I think we should get on our hands and knees and hail Jonathan Frid.
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Wasn't Bill Malloy the first actual DS ghost?
The reaction ABC got to that led to Josette's ghost, which led to Laura, which led to Barnabas.
That makes Malloy the most important DS decision, because he paved the way for the show we love!
David
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Seems to me that the most important behind-the-scenes decision (the actual details of which now seem likely never to come to light) that resulted in DS leaving the airwaves in April 1971.
As Charles indicates, I think the decision of DC to save the tapes was equally important. It does show just how strong his personality was (I'll phrase it that way for now) that he was doing that while assuring everyone connected with the series that the day to day shows were "kleenex" that nobody was ever going to see again after the date of broadcast... To me, since he was saving the shows from the beginning he must have always had potential syndication in mind (though it's possible he also saved everything because he put so much of his own energy into launching and producing the series).
G.
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It's got to be Mr. Frid, hands down. Without Jonathan Frid, the show would have gone to the dogs. Mr. Frid was and still is a great theatrical speaker. I think we should get on our hands and knees and hail Jonathan Frid.
My sentiments exactly!
Without Jonathan Frid's wonderful and excellent portrayal of Barnabas, the show would have been canceled, and would have been known as just another soap with a few gothic undertones.
Just my opinion though.
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With all due respect to Frid's obvious talents, I very much doubt he could have saved the show playing the role of a normal, human cousin from England. It was the decision to have him be a Vampire that made all the difference.
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With all due respect to Frid's obvious talents, I very much doubt he could have saved the show playing the role of a normal, human cousin from England. It was the decision to have him be a Vampire that made all the difference.
I think that's probably what the others were saying, that the introduction of a vampire, and Frid's portrayal of the 'guilt-ridden' creature, is what saved the show. As we all are well aware, according to DC, the ratings SOARED after he was introduced.
I think that all the elements Charles has in his choices played an important part to the show's success, but let's face it, the introduction of Barnabas is what ultimately saved the show from the ABC chopping block. 8)
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We've pointed this out many times, yet the miconception continues to persist:
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It's a common misconception that Curtis preserved the DS episodes, but that's not actually true. Curtis has never owned them. ABC did and then ownership was transferred to Worldvision. ABC is who should be thanked for preserving them. :) However, we can thank Curtis for filing suit against ABC because, even though he didn't win, the result finally got the episodes released into syndication. A couple years ago I shared an article about the suit that appeared in Variety in 1975:
'Dark Shadows' Prompts Suit Against ABC And Worldvision
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As we all are well aware, according to DC, the ratings SOARED after he was introduced.
And another misconception that we've tried to dispel (;)):
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Though many articles certainly give that impression (along with many other erroneous impressions ::)), it may not be entirely true. The truth was that ABC gave DS an alotted amount of time (I believe it was 26 weeks) to improve its ratings or be canceled. However, the ratings began to climb slowly once the supernatural stuff really began to be incorporated into the show - they climbed even higher during the Laura storyline - and, of course, they climbed still further once Barnabas was introduced. We'll probably never know if ABC would have considered the pre-Barnabas rise strong enough for the show to have avoided cancellation because the alotted time for improvement ran into Barnabas' introduction, but there had been definite improvement before him. It's also interesting to note that the increased viewership of early-Barnabas over the non-supernatural DS was only a million viewers (10 million vs. 9 million) and was still far short of what viewership would be even a year later (16 million)...
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Well, I know I'd never be watching if it wasn't for Frid and the fact they had the sense to recognized his talent for playing ambiguous tragic characters and allowing him to play a "guilt-ridden vampire". Very, very smart move.
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My initial impluse was to go with Jonathan Frid, but then I figured it had to be #1, turning his dream into a TV show. After all, if he hadn't started it, then none of the other things could have happened.
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I don't think any one of the elements Charles listed can solely be attributed to saving Dark Shadows, or making it the "phenomenon" it has become today. I would argue that all these elements, along with several others not listed, played a significant role in the shows genesis as well as its timeless appeal. How about Sy Tomashoff's gorgeous sets? Or the alluring music Robert Cobert served up? There are so many facets that made/make this show the phenomenal entity is has become. I just can't limit it to only one. ;)
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The casting of Jonathan Frid. He saved the show.
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Seems to me that the most important behind-the-scenes decision (the actual details of which now seem likely never to come to light) that resulted in DS leaving the airwaves in April 1971.
I'm not quite sure what is seen as a mystery here? Dan Curtis was tired and ready to move on, so was half he cast + JF didn't want to play a vampire anymore? Its been said many times that Dan wasnt really knowledgeable about the serial daytime format and reusing the same plot devices over and over again just with different characters --he didn't want to kill off Dr Hoffman to restart the "somebody figures out Barnabas's secret" plot story. I would also guess ABC wasn't offering anyone gobs of $$ to continue.
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You are so right, Julia99.
During the last 6 months of the show you could see not only sloppy writing, flat lighting, and reruns of earlier stories, but lackluster performances.
It was a very hard show to work on and everyone was exhausted.
Though I wish they had hung on 3 more months to the 5 year mark & wrapped everything up, they certainly earned
the right to move on.
David
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What has never been "officially" discussed is what I see as by far the most plausible scenario--that Dan Curtis himself pulled the plug. The timing makes particular sense because they were gearing up to make movie #2 and I think DC simply did not want the bother of keeping the series going simultaneously once again.
In official histories, the event is always presented as ABC honchos pulling the plug on the series. I believe MB found an article about the surprise and concern the trustees or other suits expressed when the cancellation was announced at the March 1971 board meeting in NYC.
It would be interesting to have seen DC write his own account of what he recalled from that period, but he and Norma are both gone now and that is why I feel the details will never be revealed.
Mods, if this post is inappropriate for board regs, please delete it.
G.
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What has never been "officially" discussed is what I see as by far the most plausible scenario--that Dan Curtis himself pulled the plug. The timing makes particular sense because they were gearing up to make movie #2 and I think DC simply did not want the bother of keeping the series going simultaneously once again.
Well perhaps because of my research and interviews with cast & crew, which the actors at the Fests have reiterated over and over again, I assume everyone pretty much knows what is said above is the case.
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Certainly not to try to prompt any new conspiracy theories regarding DS' cancellation - and certainly not to cast aspersions on anyone - but unfortunately we can't always trust as fact what the DS cast/crew have said at the Fests or even in print. Just look at some of the remarks in the DS Files books, not to mention the PomPress books ::) - and let's not even go into some of the things that have often been said on the Fest stage. :o ;)
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I agree with you MB too many things are reiterated as fact without much foundation (remember we didn't almost learn about Watergate because Woodward and Berstein couldn't get a required follow up confirmation of their story for the longest time) . But when researching this particular topic, I found the same "boredom" response reiterated in "era" articles and in more than one or two interviews--and that meets today's journalistic standards.
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Oh, I completely concur with the truthfulness of what you've stated in reply #14 for the reasons DS ended when it did (I've made similar posts myself :)). I simply didn't want it to go unsaid that we can't always count on the DS cast/crew to always recall everything as it actually happened. [wink2] Unfortunately, more than a few have proven more than once that they have faulty memories. :- But then, we might too if we were trying to recall everything in detail that happened to us 40 years ago. I can't even recall in detail everything that I did last month! :D
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Oh, I completely concur with the truthfulness of what you've stated in reply #14 for the reasons DS ended when it did (I've made similar posts myself :)). I simply didn't want it to go unsaid that we can't always count on the DS cast/crew to always recall everything as it actually happened. [wink2] Unfortunately, more than a few have proven more than once that they have faulty memories. :- But then, we might too if we were trying to recall everything in detail that happened to us 40 years ago. I can't even recall in detail everything that I did last month! :D
right--ask me about my first job 17 years ago and i can tell you a few names . .that's about it . .oh and how that one guy always. . . oh yeah. . . 8)
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Barnabas who?........ ::)
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Certainly not to try to prompt any new conspiracy theories regarding DS' cancellation - and certainly not to cast aspersions on anyone - but unfortunately we can't always trust as fact what the DS cast/crew have said at the Fests or even in print. Just look at some of the remarks in the DS Files books, not to mention the PomPress books ::) - and let's not even go into some of the things that have often been said on the Fest stage.
Boy, no kidding MB! How many times has KLS told the story of how her "Pop" died on the show. He NEVER sat up and screamed, "Where is it!? Where is it!?" when the telepromptor supposedly went bye-bye. And Beth Chavez did NOT bounce back into the shot when [spoiler]she fell off of Widows Hill![/spoiler] ::)
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I don't think any one of the elements Charles listed can solely be attributed to saving Dark Shadows, or making it the "phenomenon" it has become today. I would argue that all these elements, along with several others not listed, played a significant role in the shows genesis as well as its timeless appeal. How about Sy Tomashoff's gorgeous sets? Or the alluring music Robert Cobert served up? There are so many facets that made/make this show the phenomenal entity is has become. I just can't limit it to only one. ;)
Very true. For me, I'd have to say it was a combination of deciding to go full on into supernatural storylines, and casting choices, also breaking the rules of soaps in making the time slot later in the afternoon, and allowing the show to broaden its appeal beyond the "housewife" set. While we always kind of smirk at the idea of Bert Convey as Barnabas, the Bert Convey of 1967 was probably a different guy than the "Win, Lose or Draw" era. Also, note that Dan Curtis later cast younger actors as Barnabas, most especially in the WB pilot. (Although, I don't suppose Dan made all castings himself on that one, he was still "consulting." If Frid had not brought so much to the character, the show would likely have gone in other directions.We of course will never know. Dark Shadows might have become only a curious footnote, a memory to the few watching early on, "Wasn't there some kind of afternoon show with a vampire, ran a year or so...Anyone else see it as a kid?" There's a great analogy I once heard, where someone said, had Elvis Presley never recorded any more than the "Sun Sessions", then went back to driving a truck and electrician's school, he would have become some kind of mysterious Robert Johnson like character, but still influential. Dark Shadows is like the Sun Sessions, a lot of things came together at the right time and it made ...Magic.
Michael
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The casting of Jonathan hands down. Barnabas was the reason I started watching Dark Shadows in the first place.